Lego FA thread 1

[Beta]

I will follow-up - and advise them of the road and railway plans.

[Rhothaerill]

Email received from Vondrack:

Hi, Jared!

Last Thursday, I emailed Beta we were ready for a chat he proposed some time ago, but I have not received any response yet. I believe that with Democracy coming this turn, we really need to chat some - at least making sure we spend our research funds in a meaningful way in the nearest future.

Let me know if we could meet today or tomorrow - preferrably before you play your next turn. And if it's impossible - I suggest you halt your research, saving cash, until we deliver ToG & Magnetism to you (we shall discover ToG this coming turn and easily do Magnetism in 4 turns then).

If we are to keep it to the email only, I would very much appreciate learning what is the maximum research output you can generate at 100%
- assuming we provide you with the gold needed to cover your costs.

Cheers,
Radek aka vondrack

[Rhothaerill]

And my response. I hope you don't mind that I went ahead and responded to his inquiry Beta.

Good evening Radek,

Yes, we were planning on sending our research back down to 0 for the next few turns until we enter the next age per your PM from several days ago.
I don't know if I'll be able to get into a chat anytime soon. The only times I can chat are the times you specified as not being able to. Plus I have some personal issues going on that may limit my time for the next couple weeks. If you and Beta can get together for a chat that's great.
As to our research numbers, I pulled some rough numbers two turns ago:

- At 100% science we generate 164 beakers per turn with -38gpt loss.
- At 70% science we generate 117 beakers per turn with -5gpt loss.
- At 0% science we generate 76gpt. We will have 6 marketplaces and a bank within the next 12 turns that will add about 44gpt to that total.

Those numbers will rise as our empire grows more, but not a lot and not very quickly. It will take a while to build the next wave of improvements (universities and aqueducts) though if we can get some rails going and get electricity for the irrigation ability then our growth will progress a little quicker.

Thanks

Rhoth

[Beta]

Message sent via e-mail with the 670 ad save:

Greetings from Vox.

Here is the save. It comes with Democracy, accepted.

Also - note the pic. GS galley spotted 8-7-7 of Issac Newton. We have two caravels in the area as well. Not sure what is up?

...Beta.

[Beta]

And his response:

Hi, Beta!

> Here is the save. It comes with Democracy, accepted.

Thanks!

We have finished Theory of Gravity this turn, Magnetism comes in 4
turns (pity you can't do a tech in 2 turns...). We will deliver both
techs at the same time (unless you, for some reason, prefer getting
ToG sooner).

> Also - note the pic. GS galley spotted 8-7-7 of Issac Newton. We
> have two caravels in the area as well. Not sure what is up?

Most probably just charting. We have another GS vessel (a galleon)
charting the ocean about 10 tiles to the South/South-East of that
galley. I do not think there is a reason to worry.

Also - I have briefly communicated with Rhoth. He said you were
shutting down your research until we deliver Magnetism and ToG, which
was exactly what I was going to suggest. Get Metallurgy, we provide
you with Magnetism and ToG in 4 turns (720AD).

I think it might be a good time for a chat now. We could talk about
our plans, your plans, research etc. If you are available, let me
know. I can chat basically from 5am GMT to 24pm GMT, with some
exceptions, varying from day to day.

Cheers,
Radek

[Rhothaerill]

Received via email from Vondrack

Hi, Jared!
(Hi, Bruce!

> Yes, we were planning on sending our research back down to 0 for the
> next few turns until we enter the next age per your PM from several
> days ago.

Good. I was not sure if that message made it to you, too, or not
(plus, I am not sure how many active members you still have - Beta
sometimes sounds like he and you are the whole nation of Vox now).

> I don't know if I'll be able to get into a chat anytime soon. The
> only times I can chat are the times you specified as not being able
> to. Plus I have some personal issues going on that may limit my
> time for the next couple weeks. If you and Beta can get together for
> a chat that's great.

No problem. I emailed Beta and will see if we are able to meet. If
not, the crucial moment will come only in 4 turns anyway - depending
on what tech you get for free, we will have to agree on the research
paths. Off the cuff... if you get Nationalism, you go for Communism at

an easy pace (police stations). If you get Steam Power, Nationalism
would look viable to me (probably at 100%, using extra funding from
us). Medicine would suggest Sanitation, I believe (pre-arranging deals
with everybody for it).

I am basing these ideas on your maximum beaker output - with the techs
you'd be able to go for costing from 2160-2880 beakers (Sanitation is
2160, Medicine is 2400, Nationalism, Steam Power, and Communism 2880),
you will be able to research them in like 14-18t, maybe a turn or two
faster (with extra funding from us, which should not be a problem). In
order to avoid researching a tech someone else researches + in order
to avoid researching key techs slowing down everybody else (incl. us),
it would be best to go for a tech as cheap as possible, or as likely
to be neglected by others as possible.

> As to our research numbers, I pulled some rough numbers two turns
> ago:

> - At 100% science we generate 164 beakers per turn with -38gpt loss.

> - At 70% science we generate 117 beakers per turn with -5gpt loss.
> - At 0% science we generate 76gpt. We will have 6 marketplaces and a bank
> within the next 12 turns that will add about 44gpt to that total.

This is quite impressive, coonsidering what you have to work with!

> Those numbers will rise as our empire grows more, but not a lot and
> not very quickly. It will take a while to build the next wave of
> improvements (universities and aqueducts) though if we can get some
> rails going and get electricity for the irrigation ability then our
> growth will progress a little quicker.

Our own plans are quite simple: Steam Power for RRs first, then
Electricity for irrigating without fresh water. Not sure what next
then, as I am not 100% sure whether we should still try to get Hoover
or waive it in favour of GS (if they planned their prebuilds/research
right, we should not have a chance to get it - they should beat us to

both ToE and Hoover). GS getting it would not be a problem, as even
with Hoover, they would still remain behind everyone else.

I believe that it all depends on what your free tech will be. If it's
Steam Power (highly unlikely, I believe), it might be worth giving it
a try, I think. If not, then it would probably be better to strike a
deal with GS - they go for ToE and Hoover, we go for the techs in the
middle part of the tech tree (and Suffrage, I suppose). They are too
far ahead of us research-wise and we cannot catch up properly due to
the 4-turn research limit imposed by the game (we could do techs as
fast as in 2t these turns). If you get a tech they are not doing and
try to deny it to them (or delay it significantly), they'd probably
scream foul - and they'd be quite right, I believe, since one of the
conditions for the peaceful Voxodus was that your free techs would be
available for fair trade to them, too.

We are expecting Military Tradition from GoW this coming turn. As long

as they deliver it, which is very likely (trade agreement signed, our
part fulfilled), then there will be little to discuss before your free
tech.

One last thing - if you happen to need saltpeter at any time, just
ask. We have two extra sources.

Take care,
Radek

[Beta]

to Lego:

Hi Radek. Are dyes still available. The 20 turns ended last turn - and we had a few happiness issues. It is something Rhoth and I will have to pay more attention to.

If possible - can you re-send the lux this turn. Many thanks from your friends at Vox.

And btw - closed most of our democracy deals last turn. Rhoth even obtained a deal from ND ( ).

Cheers ... Bruce

I followed this up with a quick aknowledgement that they had already played the turn, so if they could start it up again next turn, it would be appreciated.

[Rhothaerill]

Beta if you want to communicate this with Vondrack...our new numbers are 184 beakers with -45 gold at 100% research. But like I said in the moves thread that deficit will be going up soon as we finish some defenders and cats, the harbors in the south, and a worker every 3 turns.

I'm kind of bummed now that we didn't switch Memory, Seabiscuit and Renewal over to universities before completing the markets. We'd likely be over 200 beakers if that were the case. Oh well, my fault.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Beta if you want to communicate this with Vondrack...our new numbers are 184 beakers with -45 gold at 100% research. But like I said in the moves thread that deficit will be going up soon as we finish some defenders and cats, the harbors in the south, and a worker every 3 turns.

I'm kind of bummed now that we didn't switch Memory, Seabiscuit and Renewal over to universities before completing the markets. We'd likely be over 200 beakers if that were the case. Oh well, my fault.

Will get in touch with vondrack.

As to the universities, hey, my fault as well. And it was only when Lego talked about the heavy research plan that we realized we should have done it the other way around.

[Beta]

Chat with Lego

I updated Rhoth in chat one night regarding the chat I had with vondrack last week. Forgot to post the highlights. Here they are:

Foreign Affairs

Lego and GS do not talk with each other.
Lego still talks and trades with GoW.
Lego has become closer to ND as of late.

Research

Lego will continue to keep us current in tech. They are in their GA, and researching at a very fast rate.
We will help out with our free tech, and will research specific dead end techs (eg sanitation)
General expectation is that we will get Nationalism as our free tech.
We, Vox, can expect to go to 100% research shortly, and Lego will fund our deficit.

Military
Lego is ready to come to our defence in case of invasion.
They suggest we build sufficient city defenses, and complete the road connection south of Panama Vox. We will be railroading soon.
I suggested we would concentrate on naval power after that - vondrack thought that made sense.

That was the gist of it.

[Rhothaerill]

An email from Vondrack to Beta and I.

Hi, Jared!
Hi, Bruce!

Just a quick note - unless you get Steam Power, do NOT send your free
industrial tech to us. We do not really need rifles yet (actually, we
strongly prefer doing a couple more muskets first, as we have several
30S cities quite fit for 2t muskets, while we have no 40S city able to
build 2t rifles), nor we need Medicine. No need to make it any cheaper
for those that may (be) research(ing) them. GoW is doing Medicine ATM,
that we know for sure - let them spend as much as possible.

The only exception would be Steam Power - that is a crucial tech for
us, which we need urgently. Besides, GS already have it, and GoW will
get it from GS (in exchange for Medicine, if I deciphered it correctly
from my chit-chat with Master Zen), so no big deal making it cheaper.
If it is Steam Power, send it immediately, please.

My personal suggestions:

If you get Nationalism, go for Communism (Police Stations).
If you get Medicine, go for Sanitation (Hospitals).

If you get Steam Power, go for Nationalism (Rifles).

This should make it very likely that you are first to research
whatever you decide to research.

Also - think hard about if you can meaningfully use some gold. We
might be able to help, if it really helps things. Our Golden Ages
truly are "golden"...

Cheers,
Radek aka vondrack

[Rhothaerill]

Hopefully we will receive steam power, but if we do get medicine or nationalism then we won't send it until they are ready for it.

Regarding the gold, if they are still willing to finance our deficit then we will need roughly 50 gold per turn from them, but that will go up to around 60 in the next few turns. That will allow us to run 100% research, otherwise we have to keep it dialed down a bit.

Beta can you talk with Vondrack and see if they are still willing to send us 50+ gold per turn? Then we can set that up so they can give it to us starting next turn and we can go 100% research. If they can't send that much then we can of course dial our research down a to 90% or 80% so that we don't have a big deficit.

[Beta]

Sent vondrack an e-mail basically quoting your last post Rhoth. I expect they will respond quickly.

[Rhothaerill]

The letter I sent to Lego with the savegame:

You're up. We did indeed receive Nationalism as our free tech. Whenever
you want it just say so. We are going full bore toward research of
communism and should have it in 16 turns. Our current deficit is 41 gold
after we picked up a few gpt from a trade deal. But that will go up to
around a deficit of 50gpt in about 3 turns. If you are able to send us that
much each turn then it would certainly be helpful. If not we will dial the
research slider back down.

[Rhothaerill]

Received from Vondrack via email

Hi, guys!

> You're up. We did indeed receive Nationalism as our free tech.
> Whenever you want it just say so. We are going full bore toward
> research of communism and should have it in 16 turns. Our current
> deficit is 41 gold after we picked up a few gpt from a trade deal.
> But that will go up to around a deficit of 50gpt in about 3 turns.
> If you are able to send us that much each turn then it would
> certainly be helpful. If not we will dial the research slider back
> down.

We have briefly discussed the situation in our forum an it seems we
would prefer you researching Communism at less than 100%, not losing
money. Unlike, say, Medicine or Sanitation, we believe the benefits of
Communism (i.e. Police Stations) are not needed that urgently at the
moment... we/you better save the 50gpt.

OTOH... we would be happy to assist you with some gold, if you are
able to use it reasonably. We were thinking of helping one or two of

your cities to finish (through shortrushing) all or most of the comm
and sci improvements (library, university, marketplace, bank, perhaps
temple & aqueduct, too), so that they'd be able to focus on building
arty and/or defenders, while bringing the maximum commercial benefit.
Would ~500g help in this regard? Let us know.

We would like to see you arranging the deals for Nationalism with
everybody... we know that ND is extremely keen on acquiring the tech
because of security reasons (we would suggest a looooong luxury deal
with them - like 1 luxury for 40 or, even better, 60 turns; it would
cost them "nothing", so they should be happy to take it, while you'd
be able to grow your cities a bit more without running into happiness
problem). Trading Nationalism with GoW for Medicine would be cool, too
- if you can make them add 20t of wines to the deal, even better (it's
amazing how much waste one can save by operating cities in WLTKD). And

the most important thing would be to trade Nationalism for Electricity
with GS - as we would prefer not researching Electricity ourselves,
trading for it with GS (most probably for Industrialization).

It would be worth arranging all deals in advance, so that everybody
(but us, perhaps) gets the tech at the same time. Rifles are powerful
and providing only some teams with them might make them "ponder" about
things...

We will keep building muskets for few more turns and ask you for
Nationalism only after our GA end. We plan to quickly finish Steam
Power now, continuing with Industrialization and probably Corporation
then - and further down that branch, perhaps with a short detour for
Replaceable Parts.

One last thing... would you be able to send us your World Map this
turn? Just wanna improve our ocean charts a bit. Thanks.

Take care,
Radek aka vondrack
on behalf of Legoland

So basically we'll turn down the slider and send the map to Lego. I'll see about seeking deals for nationalism. Unfortunately I've already told GS we want luxes and gold, but I'll see if we can get electricity from them instead.