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  • #61
    These are the transcripts of the discussion Beta and I had with Togas.

    The first quote is me talking with Togas before Beta came, trying to get as much as possible info and not give any.

    The second one is the official chat between Togas and Beta.

    The third one is the discussion I had with Beta during the official chat.

    Me & Togas :
    Eli Togas, are you there?
    Togas here now
    Eli We received the message from Nuclear.
    Togas Good. We need to talk to you soon about this.
    Eli I'm here for a while, and Beta should also show up, I think.
    Togas Do you need to wait for Beta or can you talk now?
    Eli I cant promise you anything official, but we can explore options and understand the situation to save some time when Beta comes.
    Togas excellent.
    Eli Basically, what exactly do you need to know or understand?
    Togas We want to make sure that we won't be drawn into war, as we're currently negotiating a MPP.
    Eli With Lego, correct?
    Togas and if the war is with a nation that we'd like to see attacked, we'd like to see if we can't help in some way
    Togas correct
    Togas to see if we can help in some way
    Eli Since I cant alone be the judge on whether to tell you our plans or not...
    Eli We should discuss both possibilities.
    Togas that's fine.
    Togas let's talk hyptothetically
    Togas hypothetically
    Eli Yes. Option 1 : We dont war at all. Option 2 : We war a civ on Bob. Option 3: We war GS.
    Eli Where should we start? _
    Togas Just to make sure, there's no option to invade Legoland?
    Eli I cant answer that alone.
    Eli Being realistic, option 1 is not going to happen.
    Togas IF there was an option to invade Legoland, I would strongly urge you to tell us so that we don't sign the MPP we're negotiating.
    Togas We'd rather not get involved in such a war.
    Togas Option 1 doesn't need discussion.
    Eli Give me a sec to check our map, I dont remember who is where.
    Togas Let's start with Option 3, as that's the easiest one
    Eli Wait.
    Eli Assuming the war is against a Bob civ, which is not Legoland. What do you think will happen?
    Togas If it's on our continent, it's complicated...
    Eli What color is your civ? Light blue?
    Togas yes
    Togas Spain. We're the furthest south
    Togas Glory of War is the black, they're the ones that have Witlitch West
    Eli Port Isolation now... *grumble*
    Togas Yellow is Neu Dem
    Eli To put it bluntly, will you stay out of war if we invade GoW or the Germans?
    Togas We *might*
    Togas We'd gain absolutely nothing by fighting for them
    Eli That's good enough for informal talks.
    Togas and we'd be very happy to see either of them invaded
    Eli Option3.
    Togas however, we signed a pact with them that binds us to help defend our continent from outside invasion.
    Togas so we'd have to cleverly find a way out, or simply stab one of them in the back.
    Eli Hmmm.
    Togas It's an option we'd consider, but we're very reluctant to do so
    Togas As for Option 3, we'd be happy to see GS get invaded.
    Eli Give me 5 minutes to get Beta in and update him.
    Togas good
    Eli Please join #Pbem


    Togas & Beta:
    Session Start: Sun Apr 06 22:21:55 2003
    Session Ident: #PBEM
    * Now talking in #PBEM
    * BetaHound has joined #Pbem
    * Togas has joined #pbem
    Togas greetings
    BetaHound Greetings Togas.
    BetaHound We are honored.
    Togas thank you
    BetaHound How are the fine people of Spain?
    Eli BEta : I PMed you the discussion between us until you came. Please read it first.
    BetaHound Excuse me for one moment - dear sirs.
    * Retrieving #PBEM info...
    Togas that's fine.
    * Eli sets mode: +l 3
    BetaHound Well - that does cover the range of options doesn't it.?
    BetaHound Unless we just like having a big army.
    Togas No one has a big army just because they like to.
    BetaHound Yes - agreed. They are expensive.
    BetaHound So -
    Togas Once Feudalism comes (GS says @8 turns) everyone can make Mid Swordsmen. The equivalent to Immortals
    BetaHound Ah - yes - a window of opportunity.
    Togas a shrinking window
    BetaHound yes -
    BetaHound You are or are going to sign a NAP with Lego?
    BetaHound Sorry - bad grammar
    Togas it's very likely. The only sticking point right now is their WM
    BetaHound WM?
    Togas We want to trade WMs as a part of the deal, but they may not do it.
    BetaHound ah - ok world maps
    Togas we'd like to know exactly what we're agreeing to protect
    BetaHound Well - have no fear of us in this regards.
    Togas that's very good news
    BetaHound Proceed with your pact and we can still be friends.
    Togas Good to hear.
    BetaHound Now - why do you 'pray' that it is GS we are targetting?
    BetaHound What concern are they to you?
    Togas As you can imagine, the politics of Bob make a war over here a dilema for us.
    BetaHound Yes. As we saw.
    Togas on one hand we'd be happy to see our northern neighbors beaten down, on the other, we've pledged to defend them.
    Togas so we're in a bind.
    BetaHound Yes - I see.
    Togas As for GS, we have no relationship with them.
    BetaHound But they are a strong team. Economically.
    Togas Now that they are Republic, they're going to soar ahead of the rest of us
    BetaHound Hmm - we had thought of that too. But we have been friends with them for awhile now.
    Togas we fear that they will eventually become too powerful to stop.
    BetaHound So - which would you prefer we attack - if in fact we do attack someone.
    Togas Gathering Storm would make us happy. GoW or ND would make us concerned.
    BetaHound Understood. You mentioned something about support. How would that work.
    Togas let me go dig up the treaty, hold on...
    Togas sidenote: We still have a Non-Agg with you until 120
    BetaHound Yes - I believe so.
    Togas Should any civilization that is not native to Bob create or capture settlements on this continent, the undersigned agree to unite, set aside our differences, and to jointly work to remove the foreign nation using any and all means available to us which include: Embargos, Pillaging, and Warfare.
    BetaHound Hmm - doesn't leave much room for intepretation.
    Togas however, last time this happened, we told ND & GOW we had a non-agg with your team
    Togas and that we would not be able to declare war.
    BetaHound Ah - that complicates it.
    Togas they didn't protest this.
    BetaHound But - if it was NeuD and GoW it would be - er - messy.
    Togas it would indeed
    BetaHound OK. So - if it was GS - how could you support us?
    BetaHound As I assume if it was on BOB, your supprt would only take the form of non-interfernce.
    Togas Initially, all I can think of is financial support.
    BetaHound Roughly how much?
    Togas but if we discover a short water path to GS, we could later invade. However, such an invasion would be 20+ turns away
    BetaHound yes - understood.
    Togas I'll have to discuss with my people. We'd want to buy something or trade something to you ... perhaps keep you in the loop with tech or, alternatively, not buy anything from GS during the war.
    BetaHound I have a suggestion - if this were all to transpire.
    Togas go ahead
    BetaHound 2 points:
    BetaHound 1. your last - do not buy anything from GS. In fact - if you have anything to sell, try and do it asap.
    * Togas nods
    BetaHound 2. We sell you engineering for 240 gold, in advance. We will not have it for some 20+ turns, as our research rate is set somewhat low - but we will have it. Payment in the form of 120 gold when war starts, 120 10 turns later.
    BetaHound See it as sort of a war loan - with colateral
    Togas we may be able to do that, just depends on when the war starts.
    BetaHound yes - if there is war with GS - it is still not clear exactly when it will be - but if there was - it would not be too long.
    BetaHound
    Togas gotcha, let me talk with my people. We have a GPT deal set to expire in 8 turns that would give us additional income.
    BetaHound Sounds good. We will also need to discuss longer term plans.
    BetaHound If you know what I mean.
    Eli Just a small note.
    Togas I you. Let's talk hypothetically ... if you do attack GS, would you be going for the kill or just to take a few cities?
    BetaHound It depends - I suspect we would like to cut them down a notch - get some more land - and make peace. On the other hand - if it goes well. Who knows?
    BetaHound If we did attack GS?
    BetaHound
    Togas We'd like to get a WM from you after the war is over, we're trying to figure out just how close GS is to us.
    BetaHound Yes - that would make sense.
    Eli A note concerning "if you have anything to sell, try and do it asap" - try not to sell techs that help in the war process.
    Togas Gotcha.
    BetaHound Yes - exactly. good point.
    BetaHound And one other fairly obvious matter...
    BetaHound Loose lips sink ships.
    BetaHound And immortals.
    Togas I will keep this completely confidential
    BetaHound Vox thanks you.
    BetaHound When should we talk again?
    Togas soon, I hope.
    BetaHound And one other point...
    BetaHound Don't believe evrything you might read in the public forum the next few days.
    BetaHound
    Togas
    Togas Would you like us to participate in any sort of a misdirection campagin?
    BetaHound Just side with the Bobians in your indignation of the upstart Voxians - please and thanks.
    BetaHound
    Togas not a problem
    BetaHound It has been a pleasure chatting with you today.
    Togas very good to chat with you as well.
    BetaHound The recent quiet of the game is decieving.
    BetaHound
    BetaHound Cheers!
    Togas we keep up on what's going on ...
    BetaHound unsderstood.
    BetaHound Peace.
    Togas and we like to get involved where we can.
    Togas Talk to you soon. Take care.
    BetaHound You too.
    * Togas has left #pbem
    * Trip has joined #PBEM
    Trip PBEM? :P
    Eli Hi Trip.
    Eli You'll read the transripts soon enough.
    Trip hello
    Trip of course


    Me & Beta:
    Session Start: Sun Apr 06 22:19:02 2003
    Session Ident: BetaHound
    Session Ident: BetaHound (~brucehyne@CPE00045a72c5ed-CM014310005616.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
    BetaHound Hi. What's up?
    Eli sec
    BetaHound k
    Eli I'm talking with Togas. Since I couldnt tell him our target, i'm bul****ting my way.
    BetaHound hehe
    Eli Basically we discussed the option of us invading GoW or Neu.
    BetaHound do you want me to join or are u OK.
    Eli And now we talk about GS, I couldnt talk about only one of them because that will tell him our plans.
    Eli Join in. I'll open a channel. I'll PM you the transcript so that you know what happening.
    BetaHound K - thx
    Eli Please join #Pbem
    Session Close: Sun Apr 06 22:23:25 2003

    Session Start: Sun Apr 06 22:23:32 2003
    Session Ident: BetaHound
    Eli Join the Vox Channel for the private talk.
    Session Close: Sun Apr 06 22:23:51 2003

    Session Start: Sun Apr 06 22:27:04 2003
    Session Ident: BetaHound
    Eli #VoxControli
    Session Close: Sun Apr 06 22:28:33 2003

    Session Start: Sun Apr 06 22:31:02 2003
    Session Ident: BetaHound
    Session Ident: BetaHound (~brucehyne@CPE00045a72c5ed-CM014310005616.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
    BetaHound questions questions
    Eli We must get them into the war.
    Eli Any help will be great.
    Eli It will also give us a long term ally on Bob.
    Eli Which is even more important.
    BetaHound Agreed!
    Eli Forget about the couple horsemen they might be able to send. If we win, we'll need someone on Bob. Otherwise it will be the 3 Bobians who will take over the world. We need someone there that is more close to us than to the Bobians.
    BetaHound yes - we need cash from them.
    Eli Note that their only reason is to weaken a potentially powerful civ. It makes them less loyal and less trustable. They dont have a personal stake in the matter like we do.
    BetaHound Agree 100%. RP are a slimey bunch.
    Eli It also means that they dont want us to conquer GS, but only to take some cities and weaken them. Otherwise the threat to them will simply have a different name.
    Eli They want a more even situation on our continent, our complete victory is no better than GSs' victory for them.
    BetaHound Yes - but if the support is cash - then once we have it it is ours to use. Or - if they can get some money out of GS in a deal somehow.
    Eli Or intelligence.
    BetaHound Like the iron supply.
    Eli We must somehow bind them to us. Make the connection more important.
    Eli This may be too far fetched, but maybe we should practically ally with them? A Vox-RP-Lego axis?
    BetaHound We can chat about that in a bit - there are some others in the works.
    BetaHound For now - I am going to try and sell him engineering in advance - sort of as a war loan.
    Eli This way we insure our interests on Bob, and since we'll(hopefull) be alone on Estonia it will be easy for us to implement. But that's somehting that requires a lot of serious thought.
    Eli Sounds good.
    BetaHound 240 gold. 12 gpt once the war starts
    Eli I dont like gpts.
    Eli We should try to get as much hard cash as possible and the rest in gpts.
    Eli I'll return in 10 mins.
    BetaHound OK - will do. 240 in two payments of 120 each.
    Eli concerning 1 - as long as it's not something that will not help them in the war, like Chivalry or whatever.
    Eli Careful with the war start time.
    BetaHound OK - that wasn't bad. Figure they will stay quiet.
    Eli I'll post the transcripts in the forums
    BetaHound Also - I need Ghengis to start sabre rattling. That may force GS into the map deal.
    BetaHound Thanks Eli!
    BetaHound btw - long-term...
    BetaHound couple of options.
    BetaHound Eli - Kon is here - can we go to VoxControli
    BetaHound hold on - kon can't get in there.
    Eli I'm there
    BetaHound can we set up another room - or do you have to go?
    BetaHound he is trying Konquest02
    Eli He should use only Konquest
    Eli Did you identified yourself?
    Eli Check the Note section in the first post in the mIRC thread.
    Eli You there?
    BetaHound Eli - Nimitz just contacted me. Gotta go. Back in a bit.
    Eli ok
    Eli Kon has problems, we temporarily moved to #Vox
    Last edited by Eli; April 6, 2003, 16:27.
    "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

    Comment


    • #62
      Err... Apolyton deletes the "<" and ">" signs so we cant see who says what. I dont know how to fix this.
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

      Comment


      • #63
        I'll fix it.

        Comment


        • #64
          I already did.
          "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

          Comment


          • #65
            Excellent reading

            And the plot thickends...
            ____________________________
            "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
            "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
            ____________________________

            Comment


            • #66
              And hopefully so does our wallet.
              Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

              Comment


              • #67
                HMM I like the sound of this. GS is going to be all alone. Sorry for not posting but I was out of town.
                "Do not honour the worthy, And the people will not compete. Do not value rare treasures, And people will not steal. Do not display what people want, And the people will not have their hearts confused. A sage governs this way: He empties peoples minds and fills their bellies. He weakens their wills and strengthens their bone. Keep the people always without knowledge and without desires, For then the clever will not dare act. Engage in no action and order will prevail."-Loazi "The Classic of The Way and Its Powers"

                Comment


                • #68
                  this looks sweet! How much can we trust togas and RP?
                  Arg-ha Lardgoa

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Hmmm - that is a good question. Not overly so. That's for sure.
                    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      i think we have to be really kind with RP, as we don't know what is really happening right now with Gengis and GoW. If we can have them as allies, it would be great.
                      Get your science News at Konquest Online!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Another way RP can help us is if they have extra horses they are willing to give us cheap (free? ). We will need a harbor to trade. We could build one in Elipolis or Wittlich.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          yes that would be a big help. WE wouldn't need to rely on GOW so much.
                          "Do not honour the worthy, And the people will not compete. Do not value rare treasures, And people will not steal. Do not display what people want, And the people will not have their hearts confused. A sage governs this way: He empties peoples minds and fills their bellies. He weakens their wills and strengthens their bone. Keep the people always without knowledge and without desires, For then the clever will not dare act. Engage in no action and order will prevail."-Loazi "The Classic of The Way and Its Powers"

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            From Togas of RP with the save:

                            No declarations of war yet from anyone ... we wish you well and hope to hear the
                            story after you pull it off
                            Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              From and to Togas tonight. It would be great if we could firm up this deal.

                              Greetings Esteemed Togas of Spain,

                              Yes - it has started. We thank-you for your wishes and prayers. And we thank-you in advance for whatever support - direct or indirect you may offer. We are under no illusions - we have wakened a sleeping giant. This will take speed, resources, and perserverence to see it to a successful conclusion.

                              Speaking of support - we had discussed a potential trade for engineering - sort of done as a war loan with collateral. We would very much like to see if we can conclude such an arrangement.

                              Ten gold per turn, commencing when our current agreement expires, would work nicely in supporting our economy through these troubled times. That should mean the tech will be finished within a handful of turns of the completion of the payments.

                              Also - please do not pay much attention to the rhetoric regarding operation MacArthur. We have no designs on your continent whatsover, other than of course, potential future support.

                              I must retrun to the war room - so - best regards, and thank-you once again for your best wishes. To Victory!

                              .... BetaHound


                              Togas wrote on 09-04-2003 00:58:


                              I will see what Spain can do to support this noble and worthy cause.

                              Furthermore, I will attempt to sway the nations of our continent to contribute to this affair.

                              May the Lord bless your people in these trying times and grant you the strength and speed to slay your foes.

                              --Togas
                              Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I think I pissed off Togas on IRC.

                                He wanted to know too much information, at least that's how I see it. I tried to refuse politely but he didnt really like it...

                                Beta, Harry, anyone, do your diplo pretty-talk with him as soon as you can please.
                                "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

                                Comment

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