Survival Of Lux!!!

[Beta]

Yup - I have chatted with Sir Ralph and he is taking the matter back to GS.

Diss - Lux produced a settler which allows them to keep their civ alive.

Eli and I had a good chat with them - Trip and BFM. Trip is drawing up the agreement now for our review. Eli was bad cop in the negotiations and I was good cop. We are getting their commitment on a fair bit of technology, and a written guarantee of friendship for the remainder of the game.

We should wait for this agreement before we playand send our turn.

[Wittlich]

Dissentville

I just realized something.

Since we are going to be "loaning" Dissentville to Lux, the ability to hook-up the iron deposit near Dissentville will be lost to us for some time.

So we need to get another city placed on the eastern side of our landmass in order to hook-up the iron deposit located there.

I know this is just a minor inconvenience for us, but with a little planning, it should be ok.

Because of the pending agreement with Lux, I believe the next city to be founded (after Elipolis) should now intail the second (eastern most) iron deposit. What do you all think?

I guess I should have placed this post in the "city planning" thread, but since this invovles the deal with Lux, I went ahead and placed it here.

[Beta]

Yes - I agree 100% Witt. And we now go with the 3 city arrangement. Using #4 and #5 from the city chart. #5 will be next - as mentioned in the city planning thread, the worker is going to have to road a few more tiles - the jungle tile just south of where he is roading now, and then the mountain tile with the iron.

[Beta]

This is the agreement that Trip and I hammered out today after the Trip, BFM, Eli, Beta chat earlier. I agreed to on the team's behalf. It was finalized at 20:00hrs est tonight via PM.

Re: Official Agreement Document


The Lux Invicta team and Vox Controli team hereby agree to all of the following:

- On the turn of 1550 BC, the Vox Controli team hereby agrees to send the Lux Invicta team a trade offering the city "Portia" with the status of "ACCEPTED" when sent.

- This city will be held by the Lux Invicta team for an undetermined period of time until after Lux Invicta has built a new city on another continent or landmass, or later than that as otherwise agreed to by Vox Controli. When this aspect of the contract expires and the Lux Invicta team is set to relinquish control of "Portia", the Vox Controli team is hereby permitted to declare war on the Lux Invicta team, and regain control of the city. After this, the teams will then make peace at the earliest opportunity.

- During the time of occupation of this city, the Lux Invicta team is hereby prohibited from settling any new cities on the continent upon which the Vox Controli team resides, unless agreed to by Vox Controli. They will not give possession of this city to any other team during the contract period, and will return the city to Vox Controli control via the process described above only at the conclusion of this treaty. During possession of this city, Lux Invicta agrees to produce at least one worker and to use that worker to either remove jungle from, and/or make improvements to, the tiles adjacent to "Portia". This worker will be left in the city for Vox Controli as per the re-possession process described above.

- For compensation of this treaty, the Lux Invicta team hereby agrees to send to the Vox Controli team, a sum of 6 technologies total. 3 of these will be the free technologies given to scientific civilizations per era, and 3 other techs, one from each of the following eras remaining in the game. The actual techs to be given will be agreed to by the Lux Invicta and Vox Controli teams at the earliest and most convenient opportunity possible. Should this not be ahered to for reason of common decision by both the Lux Invicta or Vox Controli teams, this treaty is void. If there are other unavoidable problems not brought about directly by actions of either team, then a resolution to this situation will be negotiated by the two teams.

- The Lux Invicta team also agrees to provide the Vox Controli the sum of 150 gold, minus whatever is found to be necessary to acquire the "Map Making" technology, as is needed by the Lux Invicta team.

- From this day forward, the two teams of Lux Invicta and Vox Controli will swear an alliance of friendship with each other, forever coming to each others aid when necessary, and never acting towards each other in a hostile manner, except for the one condition mentioned above for the re-possession of "Portia". This term will lie in place until agreed to by both the Lux Invicta and Vox Controli teams to void it, should this ever be desired by both the teams.

- The expiration of this contract will take place only when officially declared VOID by both teams. From that point on, the status quo will be re-established, minus the terms of this agreement which have set forth as otherwise. The Vox Controli team will then regain control of the city "Portia" by any means deemed necessary.


Lux Invicta
Document signed as official by 'Trip', King of the Lux Invicta team.
1550 BC

Document signed as official by 'BetaHound', Voice of Foreign Affairs for Vox Controli.
1550BC

[HarryH]

I think this is a good thing. Keeping Lux in the game will keep the other mainland civs off balance. When they do though, it may be us -vs- them. Eventhough lux will take a while to recover, in the long run another friendly civ will be a plus.

We will lose very little from Dissidentville since it will be highly corrupt for a while. All the dissidents in that city will be more productive under a new leadership.

This has to be done quickly as a lone settler may not last long. I am sure the other civs will have units looking for the lost city that is keeping Lux alive and you never know when a Barbarian will appear.

I would like to see some changes to the plan/agreement. The first thing is that we should ask Lux to build a Court House in the city. Without any corruption they will be able to build it much faster. Unless they are in the city a very long time getting the city back with the CH will more than make up for the time Lux has the city.

The second change is for Lux to ask Lego to give them a city instead of trying to get a settler to Legoland. I don't think a galley will make the trip. It will take them a long time to successfully make the journey, either through multiple galley attempts or getting the right tech. It will be much faster for Lego to build and give them a city. They should time it so that Lego gives them a city right after Lux finishes building the CH for us. Once we take our city back their capital would relocate to the city Lego gave them. They would be safely relocated to Legoland without risking galleys.

The third change is that Lux should give us their world map as soon as one of us has Map Making. This will allow us to see what part of the mainland looks like.

Since the Lux settler is going to die sooner or later, maybe they can try to get to the tip we see of the mainland. If they build a city there and give it to us we could make use of it. Being close to our capital it shouldn't have too much corruption. It will probably require us rushing a defender. This would make the mainland civs scratch their head trying to figure out how we got across the water. It could also p iss them off once they figure out what happened.

[Dis]

I agree. They can't go east because the ocean is too big. Going around the main continent is too dangerous.

The problem as I see it is I don't think they can establish a city until they get navigation and galleons.

The best shot is for them to work out a deal with Lego. Have lego build a city out in the middle of nowhere for Lux to take over. And of course Lego will have to go around the main continent to get to us. They will have to take the long way around. But the oceaon on their east side might be too big as well...


And finally why do we have to declare "war" on them to get the city back? Why can they just not trade it to us as we did to them?

[Dis]

great ideas about having htem build on the tip of the continent.

If they can make it I would like to see that happen.

One more thing we must realize is how this affects us diplomatically with nations such as New Demo. They may not like us harboring their enemy when they eventually find out.

I suggest we use the term "exile". That is probably the best word to use.

[Beta]

Harry - YES! Great idea about the settler. I will PM Trip immediately. Welcome back by the way.

[Eli]

Oooh, we're going to be a terrorist harboring country.

Arent the techs sci civs get every era identical? So that whatever they will get, we will have too?

[Wittlich]

The only reason I see in declaring war to retake Dissidentville would be if we retake the city with an Immortal - and hense triggering our golden age... other than that, I'm not sure why Lux couldn't just give the city back to us.

[Jon Miller]

yes

I agree Wittlich

Jon Miller

[Beta]

The problem is that as it is their only city now - it becomes their capitol. And you can't give a capitol away. Now - they could produce another capitol building a palace, but ...ouch ... that costs. Especially when you only have two cities.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Eli
Oooh, we're going to be a terrorist harboring country.

Arent the techs sci civs get every era identical? So that whatever they will get, we will have too?

I like to think of it more as a refugee camp. Then again, maybe they are one and the same, as history has often shown us.

Regarding the techs at the start of an era - I was thinking teh same thing, but didn't have time to walk through the logic. There should be someway of getting a different tech - such as... Civ A gets to the new era - gets the free tech and passes it to Civ B. IF they can - I guess that is the issue if Civ B is 5 turns behind CivA in getting there. Can you pass a tech to a civ if they are not in a new era? If not, then Eli could well be right.

[Wittlich]

Ah yes, I forgot that since the city will be their capital, they can't give it away. Ok, makes sense and we can still trigger our GA if we use an immortal.

[Beta]

Trip's response on the settler idea:

Re: Your settler
Unfortunately, that plan won't work, though it would have been a good idea.

The ND swordsmen were right next to our settler and had him pinned in. There was no way for him to get out of a small outcropping alive without having to fight 2 ND swordsmen off. This wouldn't have been possible, so we elected to disband him on our previous turn. It's unfortunate, but necassary. We should be able to continue fine however, so let's see what we can accomplish.