Foreign Affairs - Volume 2

[Beta]

And this from the Who has the Game save thread - by Trip.

"They're taking longer to play their turn than it took us to decide to declare... erm... I mean... "

I wonder what is going on between GoW, Lux, and Neu D. Hopefully Picahulu will let us know.

GoW and Lux vs Neu D?

GoW vs Lux?

Any ideas? jon, Diss - have you picked anything up in your travels?

Or was Trip simply being Trip.

[Beta]

Received from GhengisFarb. It will be interesting to get NeuD's version and see how they compare.

Comments?


Re: Meeting

[i]Ye Complete History of the Continent of Bob.[/u]

In the north there is us at the west and Lux to the east, with Neu Demo to our south. Roleplay is in the middle (south and east of ND) and has claimed all the free territory south of ND and Lux as their personal property and threatens that any attempt to scout it is an act of war against them. Both us and ND have performed some scouting missions though, which has led Roleplay to simply lie about our teams and tell everyone we are evil because we have a conscript warrior scouting wilderness.

Lux fortified a warrior next to our capital and we finally convinced them to move it away, ND claims Lux chased one of their settlers half way across the continent but Lux says they did that only after ND scouted into some area they claimed was theirs.

We tried to form a tech research pact where each of our civs researched a different tech and then traded to the other three but Roleplay violated it and now the civs are leary of entering into another one.

Roleplay agreed to trade us Writing for Horseback Riding but has refused to honor three different agreements relating to it (Do you get the feeling we don't have a very good impression of Roleplay? They've lied to us and broken agreements on several occasions so we pretty much assume they are always lying and we seem to be right on the mark nowadays.)

That's pretty much it, we've got several Wine resources we hope to trade once Mapmaking is available. There are Gem, Silk, Spice, and Wine on our continent and ND has told me there are Ivory resources near Roleplay.
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[Beta]

And just received from BFM of Lux. What a bunch of bozos they are.

Trades
Hi BH,

Thank you for your message. I can see now how we were on different pages in the big trade book. That is bad. Bad for you and bad for us, since it causes confusion and yields little trade.

You say that - evaluating trade by trade - the deal of giving IW to you was bad for us. You're right.

You also say that the deal of giving Myst to us is bad for you. Again, you're right.

But only if you look at each trade individually.

I feel that Vox and Lux need to be in a long-term trade relationship. Not a 'socialistic' one as you call it. But one in which both civs tell each other what they are researching (themselves) and then work out a deal. This can be done on a one-to-one basis, with gold to make up the difference between techs of different values.

In this light, let's evaluate the deals. First, let me stress that the Pottery deal is one that was conducted outside of the IW and Myst deals. We agreed to sell it to you for some gold, and I think that this was certainly not overpaid.

Then, the Myst for IW deal. We saved you 11 turns of research on IW, for the promise of getting Myst. We took a risk there. Although we feel that this is a good deal for us, we will keep you to the promise you made: to adhere to your part of the deal and send us the secret of Mysticism. In return, we will teach you the secret of Warrior Code and tell you what we are currently researching to pursue a continuation of our relationship. Your proposal of having us pay additional gold will not win support amongst our people, and I will therefore not waste time discussing it. I am hereby already compensating you more than a number of Lux citizens think is necessary.

My plans for the future are as follows: we tell each other what we are researching, and try to research different branches of the tech tree. Then, we trade techs on a 1-to-1 basis, with an amount of gold to balance the book. Let me know what you think about this and how we can come to a good formula for the amount of gold.

I also have another option for a trade for right now. We can get you in contact with the mighty Roleplay team, if you get us in contact with Gathering Storm. Let me know what you think about this one!

I hope we can settle our differences, and look towards a bright Lux-Vox-future!

BFM

[Wittlich]

You know, I am so glad we didn't "loan" them the use of one of our cities!

Concerning the Mysticism for Warrior Code...sigh...I say fine, trade them one-for-one (with no additional gold changing hands). This way, the books are (basically) balanced and we can pursue future tech trades with the other players instead of Lux. At least Lux can't say that we renigged on our tech trade then.

If, in the future Lux wants to know why we won't trade with them, we can use BFM's latest response as grounds for not going into future dealings with them - their deals are not considered "deals" and don't have the interests of Vox in mind - only theirs.

[Jon Miller]

I think we should hol dout for a bit

than trade (probably)

but after we trade to GoW

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

hmm, I think that we shuold be able to put our mark on that continent

get the 4 naitons warring, than pick off the losers (And make sure we get the cities)

JOn Miller

[Beta]

I can see holding out on the deal. We really only need Warrior Code. Glory of War should be able to provide that staright up as an introductory gifet. OK, we will give them some gold.

On the other hand - it would be good to keep our reputation intact. Or better yet - see if we can't trade mysticm to GoW as well.

And I will tell Neu D not to trade for it. We will provide it cheap when we meet. As an introductory gift.

And yes, it would be good to get across the straight and develop a small beach-head we could use for a military build up.

[Beta]

BTW - there seems to be some bad blood between RolePlay (Arnelos and Togas) and GhengisFarb. GF just recently quit the Intersite game after one of the threads degenerated into a little trash-talking between the three - and it clearly realted to the PTWDG.

Man - am I glad we are on our continent. And I thought be neighbours with GS was difficult.

Speaking of which - the plan is to gift them, GS, Mysticism as soon as we get it, isn't that right jon? They agree with the trading principles, and we are on the goodwill path now, right?

I'm Ok with it. Will be an early test of their sincerity.

[Dis]

Lux does have a point. If I am reading that correctly they are trading us Warrior code for Mysticism. I am fine with that. We want to keep our rep in tact for now. And having warrior code thrown in isn't too bad a deal for us.

We need to figure out what to research next. Do we need to discuss this with GS?

Also we should trade Mystism to New Demo can Roleplay. No sense having Lux profit anymore from this deal. We should reap the profits.

It is interesting what is developing on that continent. I wish I could spy on the action .

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by Dissident
Also we should trade Mystism to New Demo can Roleplay. No sense having Lux profit anymore from this deal. We should reap the profits.

That I definately agree with!

Concerning the next tech to research....I say sure, lets ask GS what they think (it doesn't mean we have to research it though).

BUT I would not ask Lux what the next research should be, since this would continue the belief that we are still their "patsy"

[Beta]

PM sent to GF tonight after the move. We will see what happens...


Esteemed GhengisFarb of the noble nation of Glory Of War.

Sincerest regards and thank-you for tabling Warrior Code. As there had been no prior discussion, I'm not sure if this was offered as a gift - in which case we are flattered and thank-you - or as a trade offer - in which case we are still flattered and thank-you - only a bit less.

My response was tailored more to the first - I assume that it was an introductory gift to establish our longer-term relationship. But I could not possibly let such generosity go without a response. I offer up 15 gold in return. I appreciate than in a straight trade, Warrior Code may be worth more, but it is a tech that several other civs have, and for which we already have a viable offer. But - we would like to do business with you. And we would like to establish a longer-term relationship.

I have put the 15 gold on the table and accepted the offer. If you are in agreement, please accept at your end.

With thanks and salutations,

BetaHound, Voice of Foreign Affairs, Vox Controli

[Dis]

in the other thread I mentioned we should get warrior code from Lux.

the mysticism/warrior code trade (with Iron working which they gave us). I am happy with this. I would like to complete the "deal". In the future we won't agree to a deal that benefits them more than us.

We should contact Gathering Storm. I'm going to send them a quick PM to see if they had anything in mind. I was not there for the chat session, so I have no idea what we did or did not agree to there. I haven't heard from Jon lately. Did we arrange any more trade agreements with GS?

PM sent to nbarclay just now. We should await any response before playing our turn. I don't want to waste research.

[Beta]

Received from Ghengis. It looks like we could possible get Warrior Code and Horseback riding from GoW. I am not really too hung up on the Lux-WC deal. We can still trade them mysticism, only for soemthing else - like cash - a fair pile of it.

Diss - the last I remeber about GS is that they had agreed in principle with the full tech trading arranagement. We simply share techs as we get them. Soon GS will be in touch with the rest of the world. We need to solidify our relationship with them now. I suggest we simply gift them mysticism, and warrior code when we get it, in the exectation that they will gift us writing.

Here is Ghengis' note. Oh btw - the other option is we do the Lux-warrior code deal, and at the same time, we do a deal with GoW of Myst for horseback riding - which is a more valuable tech by the way - 50beakers. Yes - this works better. That way we do not upset Lux. And Ghengis gets his deal too. OK. I will PM GF right away with the proposed plan. Hope you all agree.

"Re: Warrior Code
Actually, we are interested in knowing what tech you are researching now and contact with GS once we have acquired Writing.

We would be willing to offer a two phase trade of Warrior Code and Horseback Riding (we can't trade you Horseback until you have Warrior Code)."

[Beta]

This is what I sent back to Ghengis earlier today. It is now almost 4pm est, and no response - and I am heading out soon.

So Diss - it is over to you to decide on the Mysticism and Lux deal. There has been sentiment expressed to complete the deal, and honor our commitment. This is a good idea. So - if you want to put Mysticsm up for Lux, then that is OK. Or we can wait a turn and do the PM thing for a turn or two. I really want to get Horseback Riding from GoW for it as well. I will PM Ghengis right now to contact you Dissident if he decides on this later today. Or if you think the Lux deal is going sour, or will ruin our chances at getting Horseback Riding - well, your call.

(Witt - 'me thinks' you are going to have to get more involved soon. Jon doesn't appear to be around much - and this is getting a bit hectic).

My concern is that as soon as Lux gets it, they will go whoring it around asap. That's why I would like to do the Lux and GoW trades at almost the same time.

And gift Mysticism to GS. Aren't we good neighbors.

Have fun. I will.

My note to Ghengis:

Re: Warrior Code
How about a deal of Mysticism, which we are just completing - 1 turn to go - for horseback riding. We will conclude our deal for warrior code with another civ.

And yes - contact with GS can be discussed. We are not opposed to the idea.
quote:

GhengisFarb wrote on 07-02-2003 23:12:
Actually, we are interested in knowing what tech you are researching now and contact with GS once we have acquired Writing.

We would be willing to offer a two phase trade of Warrior Code and Horseback Riding (we can't trade you Horseback until you have Warrior Code).




__________________

[Dis]

I haven't sent the game because I want to iron out this deal:

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We will give you Warrior Code AND contact with Roleplay for 15 gold now.

On your turn we will give you Horseback Riding, and in return you:

Give us and Roleplay contact with GS and agree NOT to trade Horseback Riding to GS (allow us the right to trade it to them) and give us 15 gold (if you do not have 15 gold we would accept 1 gold a turn for 20 turns).

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We can offer contact with ND on the second turn also if you wish to expand the offer, Roleplay will be able to offer you Writing also.

Please respond within the next 6 hours are I will have to assume this deal is not valid and send the save on without this offer being sent.

Thanks.