Foreign Affairs - Volume 2

[Jon Miller]

should we tell them we know lux?

I think maybe we shuodl

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

woohoo

Greetings Jon and People of Vox Controli:

After extensive discussion and debate (and a bit of scrambling to adjust to
Dissidentville's location), Gathering Storm has come to a strong consensus
ratifying the enclosed border treaty proposal. (I had to adjust one of our
city locations to make it viable with Dissidentville where it is, and
another because one of our generals wanted to make absolutely certain that
cultural disparities could not cost us control of an iron source.) If this
would be acceptable to you, we can have the stability that comes with
predefined borders so that both our nations can focus squarely on building
up our economies in our nations' cores. That will make both our economies
much stronger, both for research and for production, than if we waste early
cities on a land grab in high-corruption areas. It will also help us lay a
stronger and more stable groundwork for possible (and I like to think highly
probable) future partnership in other areas.

By the way, we're sorry if Hack's recent movement caused you any concern.
Your settler happened to come south at a time when Grog was away from his
normal post hunting barbarians, which raised a theoretical possibility that
other units could have come with the settler. Hack's new position ensures
that he can let us know in the unlikely event that units that accompanied
the settler might move farther south.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[Beta]

Who is handling the contact with GoW? Jon? Witt or Diss- do you want a turn as Voice of Foreign affairs?

I think we should tell them we know Lux - not sure about GS.

Also - in response to GS' letter and the screen shot sent with the city sites - note that they are essentially claiming the one source of iron. I thought that they indicated they have another source further south. There original plan did not have that city so close to the mountains. I think they moved it when we put Dissidentville in one square further south.

[Beta]

BTW - I have been engaged with BigFurryMonster of lux regarding the botched up trade arrangement. I posted my earlier letter. He had questions. Here is my response.

Re: Trade Deal - part 2
Hi BFM.

A first tier tech is one in the first row of the ancient era, or the left hand column in the F6 screen. The idea is that a first tier tech is one that many civs have already, and that many got from barbarian huts. In other words, despite the beaker cost, they are of lesser value.

The two relevant messages from Lux are the ones I sent. I agree that neither says 'we will give you our next tech'. But they clearly refer to the longer term deal, including having Lux tell us what WE should research next. We went along with the spirit and intent of the deal, on the assumption that you would research another tech and then we would trade.

There are two ways of looking at such an arrangement - the first is what Calc has called 'socialistic'. Under this arrangement all techs are shared with the other party as soon as they become available. And research paths are co-ordinated to make sure there is no duplication of effort. This is the arranagement we thought we had entered into. If you read the two messages received from Calc with this approach in mind - you will see where we were on a different page than you. Partcularly the note below where Calc says he wants to hear what we would like in return for mysticism.

The other way of looking at the arrangement is on a trade-by-trade basis. Which I now understand is the way Calc and Trip were looking at it. But under that arrangement, the first deal was not good for you, and the second - ie we turn over mysticism to even out that past deal - is definitely not good for us. Now - to even the books, I made a proposal - Warrior Code, a first tier tech, and 35 gold. (15 now, and 1gpt).

I trust this makes it clearer as to where we were and are coming from on this. Don't hesitate to contact me if you need further clarifiaction.

Cheers! ... Beta.
quote:

BigFurryMonster wrote on 03-02-2003 07:40:

Hello, Beta!

We at Lux headquarters have some discussion going on on the exact nature of the trade agreement. It would help a lot if you could provide me with the message from us that (according to you) says we're giving you our next tech.
And what exactly do you mean by "first tier tech"? (I'm not a native speaker of English and do not know the word 'tier')

BFM

quote:


part 2 of 2 of my message to calc

As you can see, we have alot to offer you. We have no desire to withhold any strategically valuable tech to you, since we feel very safe with the people of Vox. Our natural boundaries provide little to dispute over and our common heritage of being latin-decent as well as common love for science makes Vox one of our favorite. If we can cooperate in tech buddying, it would be to your best interest since we have so much to offer you as of now. Please take serious consideration in planning mysticism as your next technological project. I would also like to hear what you guys want to work out for us recieving mysticism as soon as you guys discover it. We are open to suggestions, and we are very lenient right now, so please take advantage and accept this proposal.

I wish to hear from you again.

Calc
etc

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by BetaHound
Who is handling the contact with GoW? Jon? Witt or Diss- do you want a turn as Voice of Foreign affairs?

I think we should tell them we know Lux - not sure about GS.

Also - in response to GS' letter and the screen shot sent with the city sites - note that they are essentially claiming the one source of iron. I thought that they indicated they have another source further south. There original plan did not have that city so close to the mountains. I think they moved it when we put Dissidentville in one square further south.

uh oh, I already told them that we knew GS (I thought that it was known by everyone)

Jon Miller

[Dis]

no prob. I told them we knew GS too .

I figured it was common knowledge.

[Beta]

Originally posted by BetaHound
Who is handling the contact with GoW? Jon? Witt or Diss- do you want a turn as Voice of Foreign affairs?

Jon - you quoted me above - but no answer. Multiple choice:
1.Jon
2.Dissident
3.Wittlich
4.Beta

[Jon Miller]

Beta, I would prefer

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

(I wil be resposible for our allies, GS)_

btw, I think it is tine to exchange maps with them

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Ghengis Farb posted this in the who has the game save thread. Looks like they think we are dawdling. I will contact him to make sure he knows we are only a turn away.



quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
did you vote to go to war?

Is this why you didn't show up for our meeting?

[Beta]

PM to GhengisFarb:

Greetings GhengisFarb.

I trust all is well with you and the esteemed nation of Glory of War. I read your recent post in the public thread - regarding us not meeting.

Originally posted by Dissident
did you vote to go to war?

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
Is this why you didn't show up for our meeting?

We headed for the rendezvous point as soon as you indicated you were there. The nearest unit was three turns away. He will be there next turn, on the southern of the two points of land you can see.

We are very interested in making contact with you and seeing what business we might possibly transact.

Thank-you for your patience. We will see you next turn.

Betahound, Voice of Foreign Affairs, Vox Controli

[Wittlich]

Great catch Beta!
I, for one, am continually amazed by your diplomatic prowlness!

[Beta]

Thanks Witt! I don't think Nathan Barclay of GS is.

[Beta]

I received a response from GhengisFarb offering to give us the low down on the other continent. Here is his note and my response. This should be intereresting.

Also - the Who has the game save thread would seem to indicate that Lux has gotten in a war with someone. Oh - if only we had galleys....


My response:

No - not yet. We understand that there are 4 of you on it- inlcuding Lux, Neu D, and RP. We believe Lux is situated next to us, then NeuD, then ??? But that's about it. Lux explained very little of what was going on. We would greatly appreciate some news from the rest of the world. ...Beta.

GhengisFarb wrote on 05-02-2003 20:00:
Thanks for the response, has anyone given you a rundown of the diplomatic history of our continent yet?

If not, let me know and I will write up one (of course it will probably be biased, a little).

[Beta]

Sent this to Picahulu of Neu D this morning. Hope you don't mind me sharing a bit - but I think this could be a key relationship to allowing us to expand. And sooner than later - ie as soon as we can get galleys and Immortals set to go.



Friendship and the Future

Picahulu - esteemed minister for the great nation of Neu Demogyptica.

It was with great pleasure that I received your recent note. I very much enjoyed our early dialogue, and now that the game has progressed, it is important that we talk again. My sense has always been that Neu D is a civilization we could trust, and given that our early existence in this game has had its moments of tension, we look forward to establishing some firm friendships in this world. Friendships where our respective goals compliment each other, as oppose to competing against each other. And a friend we can rely on to stand beside us when things get tough, and vice-versa.

We very much look forward to meeting you in the game. We are obviously on a smaller continent to the east of yours. It runs roughly north-south. We inhabit the north, and smaller end of the continent. Our neighbours to the south are Gathering Storm. We got off to a tense start with GS regarding exploration and expansion rights, but have since established much better relationships, and have recently agreed to the positioning of cities and our border. We have conducted technology trades with them.

Our geography is rugged - and in fact - the northern part of our lands are separated from the southern part of the continent by a one tile 'chokepoint', soon to be a city. This has made us feel somewhat secure. Our early efforts went to expansion and major road construction; we are now concentrating on city growth and economic development.

Now - a matter of common interest. We contacted Lux Invicta over a straight of water that separates our continent from yours. Things started off friendly enough, and trade arrangements were made. It has now become clear that there was a misunderstanding regarding the arrangements, and Lux is claiming that we agreed to a deal which would be very much in their favour. We disagree. As the last part of this deal involves us sending them a technology we are just completing, we are holding out for a re-negotiation. However, we have not heard from them lately, and I presume they are occupied with other concerns.

The northen end of the continent you are on is very close to our capitol - and is only separated by the straight of water. I presume Lux is the closest civ to us, given that we contacted them next. And then I assume you are their closest neighbours. I think we can both see where our common interest lies. Now - if only we had galleys ..... (grumble, mumble).

You might also be interested to hear that Lux did not speak very well of you when we first met them. They accused you of breaking deals, etc, etc. Given our recent experience with them, we have our own ideas of where the truth lies.

So my friend, I have shared a fair bit of where we are at. And perhaps more than our other senators may approve of. But I have a good feeling about our potential realtionship, and I do believe we can share an early common interest. To say nothing of the trade possibilities. Our friends to the south, Gathering Storm, are eager to engage in multi-national trading arrangements, and we have directed our respective research paths in that regards.

I look forward to hearing from you. You should also note that if you can get a unit to the north-east tip of the continent, we could meet in the game, and enable a true trading relationship. But for now, we would like to learn of the rest of the world, of your experiences so far, and your opinion on the 'common interest' I have suggested.

My regards to you, Borc, and the rest of the leaders of Neu Demogyptica. May your nation and its people live long and prosper!

With sincerity and friendship - BetaHound, Voice of Foreign Affairs, Vox Controli.