Foreign Affairs - Volume 2

[Beta]

Diss - thank-you!

I vote for the 90%. A large gold reserve does not help us much in despotism. Being a solid partner in a trade arrangement will.

I could be talked into 80%. And future tinkering with the slider each turn that generates a 1 or 2 gold per turn loss, but which speeds up the research.

[Beta]

Oh no. Jon's in the chat room with BigFurryMonster. What are they talking about now?

[Beta]

Just received from BFM. We have some things to talk about.

Re: Trade Arrangements
Hello BetaHound!

I'm not at work anymore, so I have a bit more time to reply to you.

I will not take your Avatar as offensive or dangerous. On the contrary - I think it is very nice. Send my greetings to your wife.

To business: I have discussed both plans with my President, Trip, and some of our Ministers and team members.

First, let me state that there are 3 options here, besides the IronWorking-Mysticism deal we already have. They are:

1) We give you Alphabet for 15 gold plus 1 gold per turn, and that's it.

2) We give you Alphabet for 15 gold plus 1 gold per turn, and Writing for something else - we don't know what yet. This will open up more trade options. You contact GS and we work out a tech researching plan, in which GS and Lux trade techs with Vox acting as Middle Men. This is quite complicated, and needs the co-operation of GS.

3) We give you Alphabet for the possession of a small city near GS for 3 turns max. We will give it back to you afterwards, after we have made contact with GS in this way. We will then have GS as a trade partner, and will make sure that you will not fall behind GS too much in techs (we might donate techs we got from GS to you).


As I said, we discussed all plans. Let me just say first that we want to keep you as friends and strategic trading partners. It will give us an advantage over our close neighbours.

My people feel that we have come a great way towards you by giving you Iron Working in advance, while you will not have Mysticism for us for over 20 turns. This is a calculated risk, but you have profited a great deal from this. Also, we traded Pottery to you for a small amount.

Considering this, we cannot carry out plan 1. The gold is just not enough to compensate for our tech research.

We had a lot of discussion on plan 2. The problem is here that to open up trade options, we must get you both Alphabet and Writing. This is quite a lot considering the fact that you will not have any gold for it if you continue to research Mysticism, which is our priority. Also, we need to get GS's co-operation AND we must get them to research the exact techs we want. My people feel that this is just one bridge too far.

I have been congratulated on the ingenuity of plan 3. It is a move that no other civ will expect. GS will rub their eyes because they think that we are far away on our own island. They will know that Vox and Lux put a great deal of trust into each other and will think twice before considering attacking you. You will also have one free tech which is a big bonus considering your slow research speed. We will make sure that tech we trade with GS will come your way, too, because it is in our interest that you also reseach tech that is useful to us. Every tech we can get from your island is
an advantage over the other civs on our island! We will need to work out details - which city to switch, for how long and if units will be involved.

I hope you can see our reasoning here. Let me know what your people think.

Yours,

BigFurryMonster
Minister of Trade and Creative Plans of Lux Invicta
__________________
Better watch out, or I'll purr in your general direction.

[Beta]

Sent this interim response - with some mild pushing back on a few of their points. Should also help us stimulate our discussion.

Re: Trade Arrangements
Hi BFM. Yes - we understand your reasoning. I have taken this to Vox for discussion.

In the meantime - one new piece of info, one question, one point I wish to make, and one point to ponder (and on this one - please take a couple days to let it percolate).

1) info - it looks like we can improve upon our research rate - the exact time to be determined shortly.

2) question - under option 3 - how about the possible option of us trading two cities - one of ours to give you contact with GS, and one of yours to give us contact with Neu D? Plus the Alphabet. And some gold the other way. And yes - we agree - the idea has incredible ingenuity!

3) a point I would like to make - I understand your reluctance on option 1, and readily admit that the arrangement to date has been somewhat one-sided, but we see this as a co-operative and long-term arrangment. There may come a time when we have a resource you need, and nothing to pay in return. We will provide it. There may come a time when our research is ahead of yours, and the tables are tilted the other way. We will provide the techs. There may be a time when we need each other's military assistance, etc etc. If we try to keep track of debits and credits over different items and over hundreds, nay, thousands of years, it will become near impossible to manage.

4) a point to ponder - we trust Lux. We do not have the same relationship with GS. In fact- I would go so far as to say we that we don't trust them. That may change with time. But for now, why should we, or you, knowing that we don't trust them, be so eager to engage them in a joint trading arrangement? I concur that we would all grow quickly in techs. And I see the advantage from your perspective - the two civs who are advancing with you at this quick rate are both on a separate continent, which would give you a clear advantage over your neighbours, Neu D on your continent. But what does it do for us? Other than strengthen relative to us - a civ that we do not trust. I hope you see my point.

While still on number 4, I can possibly see a longer-term situation, when trust is reached bewteen GS and Vox, where all 3 nations enter into an 'eastern alliance' of some sort - with the rest of the world as our - er hunting grounds. But you would have the first and most readily available spoils. It would require a feat of diplomacy to keep the alliance balanced. It could be done - but, each may feel insecure - and with the early tensions between GS and ourselves, and our position in between you and GS, us maybe more than you.

Hmmmm... food for thought.

Will get back to you as soon as I can.

Cheers! BetaHound

[Beta]

And received from GS - looks like we had bought a bit of time anyway.

Tech exchange
[To BetaHound, copies to Eli, Dissident, and Jon Miller]

Greetings BetaHound and Vox Controli,

In case you are wondering why our scholars did not come to teach you Alphabet with the last caravan [i.e. turn], Sir Ralph has the flu and forgot to send them before sending the caravan to you. They should reach you shortly, and we would appreciate it if you would accept them and quickly send back smiths to teach us Iron Working so that we can complete the second phase of our exchange of knowledge.

Sincerely,

The People of Gathering Storm
Nathan Barclay, Chief Economist

[Jon Miller]

we shold point out to Lux that GS owes us a tech

Jon Miller

[Beta]

meaning ....

[Dis]

that we are supposed to do a deal... I can't think of any reason not to tell them our Iron Working deal.

Actually I would like to hear what they think about giving GS Iron Working

In any case I have the turn, and the trade is up on the table. Of cousre no one is up now.

I may hold on to this turn for a bit.

[Jon Miller]

hold on to it

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

we could pay more for alphabet

but be sure to tell Lux that we could get something for them from GS

Jon Miller

[Dis]

Beta did you send a response to GS yet?

I just thought it would be a courtesy to do that before the turn gets around to them.

[Dis]

just copied and pasted this from the other thread.

If GS get pissed about it remind them that trades are more than just beakers. Bronze Working was more valuable to them than the wheel was to us. They got the better end of the deal.

Also we can mention we are in the process of getting alphabet from another buyer. No offense to them, just that the other buyer is offering us a better deal. Free trade and all .

[Beta]

OK. Understood. Your message makes sense Dissident. I will tone down my earlier letter and update as per these suggestions.

Be done in an about an hour. Was out late last night- - bit sluggish today. Given the time pressure, once I get the letter together I will send, as opposed to bringing it back here fro further review.

[Beta]

OK. I modified the previous letter - and toned it down a fair bit. I still wanted to put the onus on them to come clean about their research. Besides - it buys us time to conclude the discussion with Lux. And that is why I did not mention that we have another deal for Alphabet. That will be the next letter - which will really p*** them off. C'est la vie! C'est la guerre! C'est la civ3!

I also expanded the settlement discussion - to make it appear that it is a matter of survival for us (which to some extent is true) and to try and convince them we are being fair.

The other thing they have been pressuring us for - is how our land is connected with that of our mysterious neighbors. I haven't said anything about it yet. I'm somewhat worried if they knew the connection was merely across water, they might feel somewaht more confident about being aggressive. Not sure what they would do about it of course, until they get swordsmen.

Here's what has been sent. We now need to concentrate on what we do about Lux and the proposals on the table.

Issues

Dear nbarclay, of Gathering Storm.

As you can well imagine, your recent letter created somewhat of a stir in Vox Controli, and hence the delay in responding.

Perhaps a senator, who will remain un-named, said it best when he quoted from the One Book. The book of Pastures.

Pastures 5, verses 1-4

1. And the cows will graze. And they will eat grass. And they will defecate.

2. And it will be pure and honest stuff, and can be used in the fields as fertilizer.

3. And the bulls will graze. And they will eat grass. And they will defecate.

4. But it is neither pure, nor honest. And can not be used for much of anything.

Now, before you react, please let me explain. I'm sure you will see why we are perplexed and somewhat disturbed.

When you approached us last regarding this trade, we were 12 turns away from completing our research on iron working. We have been watching carefully our allocation of funds to both the research and the treasury, with an aim to maximizing research, but alas, The Voice is obviously not as blessed as your capitol.

At that point, you had just switched your research efforts and were undertaking your new direction - that of Alphabet. Or so you told us. Now, either you have a magical approach to research, or, you have been trading technology with another contact, which makes a joke of your 'patent' proposal. If you have been trading, I would be curious to know who our bronze working has made it to.

So, here we sit, two turns to completing iron working (or one by the time this letter reaches you) , and you have already completed research on Alphabet, which our scientists tell me requires some 50 beakers and should take nearly, but not quite as long as our iron working research, which we have been diligently working on since we came into existence.

The other possibility is that the 'big rush' to do the bronze working trade (because, as you stated at the time, you were about to start a new research path) was just a ruse to pressure us into the trade. You may have well been on to a new research path already. And let's be honest about that trade; beaker's aside, it was of much more value to you to get bronze working and the ability to produce spearmen, than it was for us to get the wheel.

So, before there is anymore talk of technology trading, we would like to know what is going on. Simple as that. I sincerely hope you can clarify matters for us.

As to the nation that borders us to the north, well, as I said earlier, we have promised not to reveal names. As of yet. Particularly now where your integrity is much in question on our senate floor. But we have been honest as to our contact with them. And I will also tell you that we have not provided any technology to our 'other' neighbours to date.

However, the possibility still exists for a larger trade consordium involving you, and we are in serious discussion with them regarding this. There is even early talk of a possible 'Eastern Alliance', and what benefits that might entail for all concerned.

As to the road which so bothers you, well, it is for settlement purposes only. From what I can recall of our cartography discussions, you clearly have the advantage in geography. I have revisited our map and measured it in square vixens, a measurement you may know better as tiles. North Estonia is some 30 tiles in size.

So - if the people of Gathering Storm want to talk fairness, let's talk. I believe Vox settling the area north of the Sierra Centralis - the mountain range where our warriors are currently on look-out - is more than a fair sub-division of the continent we share. If you deny us that - well, why not simply deny us existence - as you will be trapping us in the limited confines of North Estonia. Furthemore, the land south of the mountains, from what we can see, has grasslands and decent terrain. The land north of the mountains is largely jungle.

To finalize the geography discussion, and to make it absolutely clear as to our intentions, we are building the road to establish new settlements. Settlements which we can assure you, will be north of the mountains. Thud can remain where he is to confirm who comes and goes. That was the intent of the original agreement.

And to conlude, what I acknowledge is a somewhat testy letter, I will quote the scriptures of the storm:

As Wisdom 4:7 says, “Ignorance breeds fear, but the fruit of knowledge is hope.”

But I think, if I am not mistaken, that Wisdom 4:19 reads "Practice what you preach."

I trust you can understand why we are seeking clarification as to the technology issue before proceeding with any more trade talks. I also hope you can see where our limited and modest settlement plans are more than fair, particulary given that you have a clearly established watch-guard position to ensure that only civilian units and their escorts come down the road.

Yours truly, BetaHound, VFA, Vox Controli

[Wittlich]

I think the letter is perfect Beta. Good work!