Moves Discussion Thread

[Beta]

Yup iron is important. But GS does not know where it is. If we make a bee line for a southern city - GS may get suspicious. Although - not much they can do about it.

I see a couple of possible scenarios.

Next city - chokepoint - (which completes the road by the way) (and is what GS expects us to do). I think we should stick to this. It gets us another city soon - and although it won't be a stellar producer early, it has strategic value.

Then - after that - well - we go for iron on the east coast - I vote for Witt's choice - it only takes one city. And lets face it - in the early days - before the jungle is cleared - these are not going to be stellar or high-growth cities.

OR

We go for the fish/wheat site - as explained in the previous chat map discussion. Not the square right between them, but the one to the SE. This will result in a high growth city for settler and worker production. And in one expansion, will get the iron on the west coast. If the east coast site - Witt's - goes in next, it will look simply like controlled growth - and should net us both irons.

I like this option better. The what-fish is clearly the better site - and if we go for the other now - they will know what's up.

If we sacrifice growth now, and the most efficient expansion we can achieve - to grab the iron on the east coast - we will not have the civ growth or production to do much once we have it.

I am clearly opposed to your approach jon - as it will take a lot of tough roading, and gives two cities which will not be very productive, other than the second which will get iron.

So. I advocate - city #3 - chokepoint. City #4 fish wheat City # 5 - east coast iron as per Witt's red dot. I maybe can be convinced to flip cities #4 and 5. But I still think this is the better way.

The road network - is fairly efficient as well. Either way.

I think this will let us have our iron (both of them), and eat it too.

[Dis]

If our settler production was faster I would definately agree with that.

But I'm concerned about our slow growth. I suppose if we don't trade Iron Working to GS it won't matter. We can wait to found that second city site. They are unlikely to build there.

Basically I'm 50/50 on this issue. Eventually GS is going to wonder when we are finished with Iron Working. I'm not sure what to say about that yet

[Jon Miller]

tell them we will trade it when they get alphabet

Jon Miller

[Dis]

that's true.

If they just started it, they should be at least 16 turns away I would think.

[Beta]

Yup - and then when they get Alphabet - we can still choose not to trade.

It would be nice to know if those are the only two sources of iron. 'Cause if they are, and we can get cities on both of them - then we can trade it anyway.

And they don't need to know we have it now. We can probaly drag it out another 12 turns or so - the original research path - and claim that we are not generating much gold nor beekers - that's why we are so slow.

[Beta]

I have sent via e-mail a recent screen shot with possible city sites marked.

My proposals -

1. Chokepoint City - GS is expecting this - it will maintain the low-tension environment. It will join the road. The drawback is we could use a city further south more than one right there. Also note regarding chokepoint city - after the one grassland square to the south-east, there are no other two-food producing tiles. It will be a slow grower. Shield and commerce prodcution will be OK, though.

2/3 . The next two proposed sites - to claim the mountain-jungle area - and the iron. I am proposing the fish-what first. It will be a high food producer - with the wheat tile producing three food and the fish two- and we need that for additional settlers and workers. We will need to beef up its shield production, probably by mining the wheat square. If we opt to bypass #1 now, I would vote for this site. And then the site on the east coast - as per Witt's suggestion.

I have also drawn in the proposed road. Once the road is in for the wheat fish site, we only need one more tile roaded (is that a word) to get to the third site.

4. This should generate discussion. I suggest we claim the grasslands on the other side of the mountain. It has another incense, the whales (after one growth), and solidifies our hold on the iron. This will be seen as being somewhat aggressive - and there may be a good chance that the site is gone by the time we get there. But it would be a good site - and has a number of shielded grassland squares.

5. Speaking of shielded grasslands - c site number 5 claims a number of them. It also completes our claim on the area - and is an area that should be reasonably defensible.

6. Is just, IMHO, a really good site - but we can use it as a back fill. I also think North estonia could accomodate one, or two more cities, but they clearly are not priority right now.

That would provide 6-8 cities - and then if we get testy with GS, and the Golden Age kicks in, it will be helpful.

The decision tree for the first few cities (you can tell I'm a manager - can't you. ) goes something like this.

A - yes to chokepoint city, then #2 (wheat), then #3, then we discuss.

B - yes to chokepoint city, then #2 (but the east coast), then # 3 wheat, then we discuss.

C - no to chokepoint city, then #2 (wheat) is next, then #3, then we discuss

D - no to chokepoint city, then #2 (east coast), then #3 wheat, then we discuss.

I'm undecided between - A and C. The chokepoint next or not is the tough decison.

[Wittlich]

The main reason I see for founding chokepoint right now would be to hook-up the road network - since the city tile currently doesn't have a road on it....and GS is expecting the city to be founded at any time now.

Concerning the next city site (either Wheat or East Coast), I believe we can get a road built to the East Coast site (and the Iron) faster than the West Coast (Wheat) site...even though the Wheat site would have a higher "food" production...

[Jon Miller]

I played the turn

I left it so that the worker in the south can road to either source of iron

I roaded the worker in the north

I had the warrior in the south follow the worker down

I looked at the tech rate, we don't want to be losing a gold a turn do we? (would move it down to 19 turns)

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Thanks for the update jon. Do we want to let Lux know we have it down to 19 turns? - and I agree with you - no loss per turn.

The city debate continues - -- Witt - I understand your point - but we will not be able to build many Immortals right away. I don't see the big push, now that we know we CAN get to it.

And I am worried about GS building on the other site - well - not much of a chance of that really. Forget that point. To me it is a function of a) growth and b) where we can build that will seem 'obvious' to GS. If we build in the other spot - we would only do it for one reason - and then we will be pressured again about the trade.

And I can go with chokepoint city next. I suggest that when the worker gets those mines built, that he start on an irrigation project to bring irrigation across the plains and down to chokepoint. This should help with its growth situation.

[Kuciwalker]

I think no chokepoint. We have the warriors. We want to get as must of South Estonia as soon as possible.

[Dis]

edit: disregard. I misread.

[Beta]

OK - I could start a poll - but with 5 of us that seems silly. Considering two have already voted.

Should Chokepoint City be the next built:

Yes - Witt

No - Sky

Yet to vote - jon, Diss, Beta.

I will give it some further thought and register my vote shortly.

Should we call it Chokepoint City, or Elipolis.

[Eli]

Yes.

[Eli]

Should we call it Chokepoint City, or Elipolis.

Well... Good question. *cough*, *cough*, I think we should seriously consider the issue *coughelipoliscough*.

[Dis]

I'm still undecided

I think we have 3 turns when it is done. I say build on the chokepoint. But if we see any settler activity by GS then we should consider building on the east coast or on the wheat/fish site.

And I do propose building on the wheat/fish site before building on the east coast. Again this will depend on GS settler activity. If they are encroaching we may need to alter our plans. But GS is likely to go fro the wheat/fish site as soon as possible since they can see that, but not the iron.