Moves - Volume 4

[Beta]

Hi Rhoth - I was doing some rough calculations on this as well last week. My concern is that there are clearly stronger researching civs out there. If we are beaten to democracy - which would not be hard for anybody but RP, then its value clearly diminishes. Maybe what we need to do is as you have done - come up with a reasonably firm date we can produce it by - and do this reasonably soon - as in well before we finish PP. Then we make our pitch and cut the deals even before we start producing it. This will discourage any of the stronger civs from researching it if they are confident they have a deal for it, and we lock up the deals now.

I think we have reasonable credibility on the world stage, and our perceived neutrality during the Bobian conflict. What do you think? One advantage we have going for us is that democracy is not a mandatory tech for advancement, so others may be glad to get it without researching it. On the other hand, some may be restless to get to the advantages of democracy. And a second advantage is that, as far as I can figure out, know one can start on democracy until we finish democracy. (You see, it all comes down to those damn scientists partying their brains out in Pee Vee. )

[Beta]

Ok - just looked at the save.

I suggest Discovery goes 8-7-4. Stretches the search a bit.

And Exploration 4-4-9???? We may want that quicj route across the ocean someday.

Now - I understand the plan for horsemen and knight upgrades. Can I make a pitch for a university in The New Voice. It would be done in 10 turns - and would boost culture - but much more importantly - research.

And - now thinking about the Library rush in Hope or the harbor rush in Phoenix....

Rhoth - I hope you don't think I am simply being contrary here; I am just looking at alternatives and trying to weigh some costs and benefits.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Beta
Ok - just looked at the save.

I suggest Discovery goes 8-7-4. Stretches the search a bit.

And Exploration 4-4-9???? We may want that quicj route across the ocean someday.

Now - I understand the plan for horsemen and knight upgrades. Can I make a pitch for a university in The New Voice. It would be done in 10 turns - and would boost culture - but much more importantly - research.

And - now thinking about the Library rush in Hope or the harbor rush in Phoenix....

Rhoth - I hope you don't think I am simply being contrary here; I am just looking at alternatives and trying to weigh some costs and benefits.

Heh, look above for Discovery and Exploration. In looking at the save we will not be able to clear off the black ocean tiles without putting our ship at risk for sinking. I decided to send it north instead until we get Navigation.

And no Beta I don't have any problem with you suggesting modifications to my plans. This is a democracy game after all.

Regarding the University in New Voice, that will depend on what we want to accomplish in the future. Do we want to have a slightly better research option or do we want to start building our military? Either one is fine with me. I think we can count on Lego for defense (not that anyone would be attacking our rock anytime soon anyway ) if we want to continue with light military and go for the University. I still think the other cities should work on marketplaces after the libraries though because the maximum research we are able to do is 50% until we get some more gold and marketplaces going to make up for our upkeep expenses.

Regarding the harbor rush in Phoenix, I would like to keep that in as it is somewhat necessary for my plan. When it's ready to happen it should only cost about 40 gold but will give us the opportunity to get the city up to size 6 a bit quicker. I have actually been thinking about rushing the library in Hope, but it will be a bit more expensive. In 5 turns we will not have nearly as much gold surplus to play with so we have to spend it wisely.

[Rhothaerill]

Regarding researching democracy, I definitely agree that we should get some feelers out there for the other civs and see what is going on with their research engines. If we can persuade all of them not to research it and set up trade deals instead then it's a good thing.

[Beta]

For the ship moves - I think I planned it so they moved out into ocean tiles - but ended on sea tiles. That is safe. I am looking to expand by one or two tiles the shroud around Voxtavia - and well - see what we can see.

Yes - we should discuss the university vs military question.

And I see your point about the harbor in Phoenix. Let's stick with your plan.



Have a great day all!

[Rhothaerill]

Turn 450ad played

The turn began first with GoW sending the wines and 43 gold accepted. Then Lego sent us chivalry. Nice start.

I played the turn mostly with my plans, though I incorporated Beta's change to V.C.S. Exploration as well as changing The New Voice to a university and Panama Vox to a library (which I was going to do later on per my future planning thread, but went ahead and did now so it did not get lost in the shuffle). I also switched the work force on the hills in Phoenix and Eternity. It will save us a few gold up front.

Lego has settled Port Hammer on the peninsula where they said they had a city going.

We have 243 gold with +33gpt and Printing Press in 5 turns.

GoW Offer
Lego Offer
Voxtavia

[Rhothaerill]

Turn 460 orders

These orders have been verified

- Workers #1 and #2 move 4-2-1 to join with worker #6.

- Rename worker on hill to Worker #6. Worker #6 ends turn (to get into sync with #1 and 2). It wastes a worker turn, but does not hurt anything in the long run and it would probably mess us up otherwise.

- Workers #8-10 move 2-2-1.

- V.C.S. Exploration moves 4-8-9 (unless we see something when we move 4).

- V.C.S. Discovery moves 8-4-2 (unless we see something when we move 8).

[Rhothaerill]

Some interesting stuff.

If we decide to rush the library in Hope it will cost 92 gold next turn, 72 gold the turn after. Rushing the library in Panama Vox will cost 56 gold next turn decreasing by 4 every turn. Rushing the harbor in Phoenix will cost 48 gold on turn 9 when it is scheduled to be done.

Thanks to Lego's generous tech distribution we have 3 techs that Gathering Storm, Roleplay, Glory of War and NeuDemogyptica all do not have: banking, music theory, and astronomy. This could be very advantageous to us in our democracy dealings as no one has banking and Roleplay won't get it until almost the same time we recieve democracy (I'm assuming they are going to be GS's vassal the same as we are Lego's).

If we desire more luxuries in the future, GS has two to trade us, Lego has one, and ND has one (though many more to come with them owning RP's old lands). Roleplay only has one incense (our old one) so they probably won't trade.

Thanks to our libraries we are first in literacy though last in population (that will change in about 15 turns). Most everything else we are fifth (ahead of Spain but behind the others).

We finally moved over the 200 mark in score.

[Beta]

Gotta like it. Wine and money - all in the same turn.

The moves all look great. And I do like the university build better than horsemen at this point in time.

on the ship moves. There has to be an island out there somewhere....

on our tech status. This is remarkable, when you think of it. Although, we do owe a huge debt to to Lego for it.

Speaking of Lego - they mentioned way back when that they had a lux they could give us when we needed it. Keep that in mind for the next pop growth.

Another observation - a library built this turn. Two more in the next three turns. A harbour in 3. Hope's Library and the University after that. Not bad at all for a civ which was essentially reduced to nothing at one point.

Hail to the One! (and Rhothaerill )

[Rhothaerill]

I did a bit of rough calculation and I think I'm going to be against rushing the library in Hope. Rushing it this next turn only saves 6 turns in which we could get one and a half workers out sooner. This would give us roughly the equivalent of 3gpt extra for those six turns. Also we would have the library for an extra 3 turns at the beginning of our ramped-up research which would equate to about and extra 3gpt during those three turns. However if you count in the 92 gold we'd have spend plus the 6 gold in extra upkeep then we have an output of 98 gold which would give us a savings of 27 gold over the long run. Not too worth it to rush, so I think I'd like to keep it building normally and use our gold elsewhere.

Regarding Lego's luxury, our cities will all be good to pop 5 under current conditions. Right around turn 20 of my orders is when several of them will hit pop 6 and need either the luxury or 10% on the slider. So if Lego offers us the luxury on turn 19 that would be great!

[Rhothaerill]

Turn 460ad played

The turn was played per my orders. Nothing was discovered on the caravel exploration. Lego offered us gunpowder, which all other civs have.

We have 276 gold with +33 gpt and Printing Press in 4 turns.

Lego Offer
Voxtavia

[Rhothaerill]

Turn 470ad Orders

Orders have been verified

- Renewal completes library. Start marketplace.

- Hope grows to size 4. WF on fish, 2 mined grassland and mined hill.

- Workers #1, 2 and 6 move 2-2-2 to hill tile S of Panama Vox.

- Workers #3-5 move 1-2-2.

- Workers #8-10 move 4-8 to hill tile north of Eternity.

- V.C.S. Exploration moves 7-8-6.

- V.C.S. Discovery moves 4-1-2.

[Beta]

Re: Turn 460ad played

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Nothing was discovered on the caravel exploration.

Well, damn.

[Rhothaerill]

Turn 470ad played

The turn began with Lego offering Dyes. All moves played per my orders, with the exception of switching the WF in Resurrection to one hill/one coast to pick up one extra commerce point. Nothing was discovered by our caravels.

We have 309 gold with +35 gpt and printing press in 3 turns.

Pressing concerns: What do we want from GoW for printing press. And should we take incense from RP for printing press. We don't really need it right now.

Lego Offer
Voxtavia

[Rhothaerill]

Turn 480ad orders

These orders have been verified

- Irony grows to size 4 and culture radius increases. WF to 4 coast tiles.

- Resurrection finishes library. Start marketplace. WF to 2 coast tiles for 2fpt growth.

- Memory finishes harbor. Start marketplace. WF to whale and coast.

- Rush harbor in Phoenix to maintain the ability to grow to size 6 on turn 20 instead of turn 22.

- Workers #1, 2 and 6 road hill tile (do this before all other worker moves).

- Workers #3-5 move 2-1 to hill tile currently outside Panama Vox's border.

- Workers #8-10 road hill tile.

- Rename worker on gold mountain near Renewal to VW#11 and moves 3-3 to mountain tile south of Renewal.

- V.C.S. Exploration moves 7-8-9

- V.C.S. Discovery moves 4-1-2