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Originally posted by HarryH
I can continue to play the turns for about two more weeks. On Saturday the 23rd I head to Florida for a week long software conference. Sorry, can't get out of it. I will be presenting a paper. After that I will be gone every weekend through October, and maybe some weekends in November too, for dog activities and the possiblity of a vacation in early October. I will check in during the week between dog activities. I don't know if I will have internet access in Florida. I will have my laptop with me and should have my wireless network working by then. The resort the conference is at is pretty high priced for my tastes. If internet access is not free with the room my guess is it will cost too much to make it worth while.
We should make plans for someone else to start playing the turns starting the 22nd/23rd.
Witt, Rhoth - do you want to take over for awhile?
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.
Originally posted by Beta
Witt, Rhoth - do you want to take over for awhile?
I'm still trying to figure out my email troubles with sending game files. If I get them figured out I might be able to be a turnplayer for a while...or an emergency turnplayer.
Originally posted by Beta
ooops! Looks like I'm the one to be fired....
Just got confirmation from Beta that he can read my savegame attachments so I'm sending one last test to ZargonX since he was the one who first informed me of the problem. If he can read it then my email should be fine.
EDIT: But if Witt wants to be the turnplayer that is fine with me. I'm very busy at work for the next six months or so (working on a 16 acre retail site) so I'm not able to devote as much time to Civ3.
It doesn't matter to me...though I will be starting school again on 18 August, so my time will also be limited - but I should still be able to perform the moves if no one else wants to or can.
____________________________ "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996 "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu ____________________________
Thought it was best if we have the discussion of the 115 gold from GOW in the moves thread - as this is where all the info is.
I have e-mailed H_E's note to Rhoth and Harry. Panzer and H_E are claiming that they did indeed send the cash, and have attached math and screenshots to back it up.
On the other hand - I have gone back through our saves for that period, and it does not appear as they paid us. I went through all the math.
Also I am suspicious of their 30 bc screenshot. Yes - I sent engineering accepted (I believe) on 50 bc.... here are my notes from that turn:
50bc turn played.
Quite a turn actually.
Received theology from Lego.
GoW sent the money for engineering and the money for the investigation plus wines.
So - I did not accept as we will not need luxuries for awhile. I explained that to them in the chat last night. They are OK with this and will resend the cash this turn.
Sent engineering to Lego.
Sent engineering to Gow.
... and then they add the 85 gold and 30 gold which means that the turn would have to come back around to us to accept it. Yet their screenshot shows us as having accepted the deal, including the cash.
Also - I went back and totalled our cash flows and treasury levels from 50 bc through to now. We are short 115 gold.
So - a game glitch?
btw - will send H_E's note to all by e-mail.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.
Reviewed H_E's screen shots...you are right Beta, something is not adding up on our end. We might be screwed on getting the gold from GoW.
If we do end up taking the 115 GP loss, I say we do not perform any more spy missions for them. What do you all think?
____________________________ "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996 "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu ____________________________
I did some looking through the reports and looking at the 30 BC save at the start of our turn and it appears that GoW is correct.
70 BC - In Beta's report (or from a pic in the report) we had 116 gold and +5 gpt.
50 BC - We should start this turn at 121 gold based on info from last turn. We did a city investigation at a cost of 78 gold which should leave us with 43. End turn pic shows 43 gold and 0 gpt (anarchy).
30 BC - I opened the save and we start with 148 gold. GS took Voice and captured 10 gold which they were sending back in a trade deal. Ending last turn at 43 - 10 should have left us with 33 gold and 148 - 33 = 115 so it appears that inbetween our turns we did get the gold from GoW.
I believe GoW is correct. Instead of simply not accepting the deal I believe Beta modified the deal and sent it back.
I may have done that Harry. I honestly can't recall. But I usually just send the deals back unaccepted. And I would not be able to drop the wines from the deal. They would have to do that. Which is why I am puzzled.
I will send the 50bc save. It is named somewhat differently so you need to hunt for it in the saves file. It shows up first in the saves received from RP.
I forgot about the investigation we did. And yes - that cost us money.
Let me re-calculate.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.
Yup - as usual Harry - you are right. If I replay the 50bc turn, with the investigation, we end up with 43 gold. And we start the next turn with 148, which is 10 short of the 43+115 (gow payment), because, of course, GS took The Voice and 10 gold, which they repay this turn as part of the peace deal, bringing our balance back up to 158.
OK - the math works. And it looks like GoW and us are square.
But how did the mechanics of the trade work. That is what I doi not understand. They sent 115 gold as two lump sums - 85 and 30 I think, and wines. As my turn notes indicate, I did not accept the deals as we did not need the wines. And not accepting is one reason our treasury was so low when GS took the Voice - which looked good by the way for the 60 gold.
I can't modify the deal at all. I can't even add engineering to the deal because it doesn't come up until later in the turn.
So - it looks like it did happen - I just don't know how.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.
Well, its good to know that GoW repays their debts. So I have no problem with them wanting future survices (ie Spy) from us.
____________________________ "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996 "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu ____________________________
So - it looks like it did happen - I just don't know how.
I don't know how either. I checked the 50 BC save you sent. It starts up with a trade deal from GoW containing 85 gold, wines, and 30 more gold. The deal is unaccepted. We do not have engineering yet so we can not put that on the deal. The game will not let you skip the deal to come back to it later. You must respond, so what I said about modifying the deal is not right. After the GoW trade the deal from Lego with Theology comes up. Then the game goes through the city stuff and we get engineering. The only thing I can think of is that we sent a deal for engineering accepted and then GoW modified the deal to add gold, and maybe the game figures that if you accepted nothing that accepting more must be OK so it leaves it accepted and GoW completes the deal. Sometime if I find the time I might try to setup a scenario to verify if this is possible. Whether that is how it happened or not, the money works out to show that we did get paid.
I've informed GoW and asked them to confirm what shows up when they open that turns game save, and what they did to finalize the deal.
They will be relieved to find they do not owe us the cash.
My note:
H_E- this is strange. But good news for you. We have worked out the math, and we did receive the 115 gold, in the same way that the calculation from your end indicates that it did get paid. So we are all square.
The strange part is that we can't figure out how the deal happened. The cash does show up in our treasury to start the next turn. And the two diplo moves I made were to send the 115 gold AND wines back to you unaccepted (we didn't get enegineering until later that same turn - given the way the turn works) and later I sent engineering accepted, by itself. So what Harry and I are trying to figure out is how you were able to add the gold to the deal, and still have it shown as accepted by us.
Here it is in other words - excerped from our forum. My inquiry followed by Harry's response:
quote:
So - it looks like it did happen - I just don't know how.
I don't know how either. I checked the 50 BC save you sent. It starts up with a trade deal from GoW containing 85 gold, wines, and 30 more gold. The deal is unaccepted. We do not have engineering yet so we can not put that on the deal. The game will not let you skip the deal to come back to it later. You must respond, so what I said about modifying the deal is not right. After the GoW trade the deal from Lego with Theology comes up. Then the game goes through the city stuff and we get engineering. The only thing I can think of is that we sent a deal for engineering accepted and then GoW modified the deal to add gold, and maybe the game figures that if you accepted nothing that accepting more must be OK so it leaves it accepted and GoW completes the deal. Sometime if I find the time I might try to setup a scenario to verify if this is possible. Whether that is how it happened or not, the money works out to show that we did get paid.
So - can you verify that when you open that turns save, what deal is on the table, or what you did (if anything) other than accept to make the deal work.
Obviously no rush on this - but it is an interesting study in the game mechanics.
Sorry to bug you guys when you had in fact paid up. It was the way that it happened that confused us. But the math and pluses and minuses verify that we did receive it.
Looking forward to getting to the bottom of this... regards ...Beta.
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.
Looks like I'm the one to be fired....
After that I will be gone every weekend through October, and maybe some weekends in November too, for dog activities and the possiblity of a vacation in early October. I will check in during the week between dog activities. I don't know if I will have internet access in Florida. I will have my laptop with me and should have my wireless network working by then. The resort the conference is at is pretty high priced for my tastes. If internet access is not free with the room my guess is it will cost too much to make it worth while.
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