A Personal Request from Trip

[Crousto]

In fact, it looks like he's trying to join all the teams, as all the icons appears next to his avatar

[ThePlagueRat]

This is outragous!

[OliverFA]

Trip is member of Vox now. Anyone knows about that?

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by oliverfa
Trip is member of Vox now. Anyone knows about that?

C'mon guys, I'm pretty out-of-the-loop, as I'm out of town this month, and yet I know what this is all about.

Read this thread in the game forum.

[E_T]

If he only does what Vondrack has proposed AND makes a statement about looking at the save, then I would have no problem with letting him in.

[EDIT] if all of the teams allow it, he might even be given all of the Passwords for all of the teams... But this incident might cause problems if it's not revealed soon.

E_T

[jdjdjd]

I think its a great idea, even if he did look at the save. I mean once he has access to all forums, whats the diff if he saw the save. He could play ahead and predict how we all would play.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Aha! Isee it now. Trip wants to have access to all the forums. And yes I believe he is sincere in his intent to use that just for creating a history of the whole game.

This may have started from a simple thought - how cool would it be to be able to observe all of the goings on, to chuckle to yourself at the flawed deductions and devious plots of the various teams in relation to each other? This thought is powerful, I can attest to that.

In the early stages, before the game started and the most secret thing was which civ to choose, from some admin glitch (being the Mod/President of the Civ3 Demo game at the time of formation of this forum), when I searched for new posts I could see the posts in private forums. I observed this for a time before letting MarkG know about it, from which time I was restricted to this one only. It was a great feeling, knowing all. I imagine Trip is feeling this too, and that will likely be his personal motivation behind wanting to be a member of all teams.

However I see no issue with this. Let him in, if he is going to try the mammoth job of chronicling the entire game! Just be careful what you say - if he comes in he may well find what you have written about him.

[pikesfan]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Just be careful what you say - if he comes in he may well find what you have written about him.

Maybe this is another good time to test the “if I hide under the blankets they won’t see me” theory for Trip

[GodKing]

no opinion.

[Aidun]

All edit your posts about Trip. All nasty words must be changed to *** : censored

Aidun

[Arnelos]

Concerning talking behind people's backs...

I have told Trip to his face (well, as much as that is possible over the internet) many of the things I've told about him to others. He's aware, in part, of what I think of him.

As for the rest, it would simply be rude to inform him of that in the exact manner in which I termed it to others. A puritanical moralist may find that objectionable... but, what would a puritanical moralist NOT find objectionable? (I'm abusing a quotation there...)

As for Trip joining this team:

Although I haven't been taking an active part of late, I remain opposed to it on behalf of those here and those who may yet join. I agree with Ninot concerning Trip himself and I furthermore believe that Trip's intended purpose in "observing" all of the team, knowing Trip's tendency for loose lips, is simply asking for a security risk - period.

We can share RP Team's history as we go or at the end without Trip's help. We don't need him to be an observer.

[History Guy]

Good sirs, here I present myself, Fernand de History Guy Calamari, the second son of Hernan de History Guy Calamari the Younger, lately deceased.

Fellow members of the thane council, My Good King and Lord Togas, I have just returned from burying my father's ashes in our sacred mausoleum at the Squidimark, and after that, I traveled to Neu Theban to inform my father's old friend Picahulu of my father's death. On the way back, I was allowed to observe the occupation of the Lux Invictan capital.

I stood on a grassy knoll several hundred yards from the main battlelines around the smashed walls of the city. Catapult shells and ballista missiles had smashed in much of the fortification, and a great deal of stone had fallen inward atop the barracks inside. The Neu Demogyptican army had burst in through a hole in the center, and had quickly cut off most of the Lux Invictan troops.

The Arabs quickly sprang upon the Ottoman troops as they attempted to escape from the walls, but the invaders set fire to the wooden ramparts, and many of the Turks burned alive on that great pyre, which collapsed onto the barracks also, burning many of the villagers to death.

As the walls broke down, the final reserve troops, the imperial janissaries of the Sultan, burst through the burning barracks to meet the invaders. They stood bravely in a wall as the Arabs came on. For a moment, the Arabic line wavered as Ottoman archers poured a final volley of arrows into them, coming down upon the Arab men's heads. However, Arab horsemen, obscured by the first wave, rode past their dying comrades, and crashed into the wall of spears.

In a matter of minutes, the janissaries were surrounded. Their flanks were crushed, and though they attempted to surrender, they were slaughtered, each one. None of them lived. All died. I watched as the captured were led outside the city walls, and one by one their heads were lopped off by a mad Arabic swordsman. The routine slaughter seemed so inhuman to me that I thought it must be the end. It was but the beginning.

Without any of the enemy troops to defend the city, the Arabs swarmed in, and the citizens themselves became the targets of their wrath. In the thousands, they were slaughtered. The streets ran with blood, and the charred ruins of the city bore no resemblance to that great center of culture that it had once been. Nearly to the man was that slaughter. Slit throats were the order of the day. The earth was stained with blood.

I rode into town as the fires were being hurriedly put out. There was a great quiet, though in the distant quarters the slaughter and rape continued. I rode towards the palace, hoping that it had been spared, for I had looked upon it and seen how beautiful it was many years ago in the company of my father. But now, the gardens burned, and the corpses lying there festered.

Where the Sultan's throne room stood, its ceiling arching high above the earth, there was nothing but death. I steadied myself on a pillar, and looked at what was before me. The throne was obscured by a great mound of bodies, festering, naked, dead. More men and women lay dead there than I had seen buyers in our market in the past. It was a sight I will never forget.

Sultan Trip deserves not to be allowed into our society. This is the product of his foolishness. Do not forget the massacre and barbarity produced because of his evil and thoughtless actions. Had he only used his mind for greater things, his people would not lie dead in their own blood today. Look upon that example, and decide whether this man should be accepted as a thane in our country.

Fernan de History Guy Calamari

[Aidun]

Fernand, it is too early in history to talk about crimes agianst the humanity. To our current common thought, Trip is just a cruel tyrant, he was sovereign in his country, so in these day's there is no legitimate objection to his behaviour towards his people. I foresee however that once such inhuman deeds will be punished, but it is a long way to civilization and even that world is still a barbarious one with dirty politics.

However, about your main issue: I have stated in one of my former argumentations in this discussion that Trip should not become a thane of the country. That title is only preserved or should only be preserved to the advisors of the despot: the Most Trusted Advisor, the High Priest, the Slavemaster, the Royal Chamberpot Cleaner, the Ambassadors, the Governors, etc.

Trip should not even be allowed to be citizen like we all are. We Spanish are proud on our country, proud on our most exalted despot Augusto Togas, proud on our shared history, proud on our magnificent civilization, proud on ourselves and the way we contribute to this all. As you can see these are all things that the people of Spain share, foreigners do not share these things, they are not spanish and should not be spanish citizens until they can proudly call themselves spanish, integrated in Spain.

No thaneship, no citizenship, Trip should have no civil rights of Spain. In a later stage we, together with Trip can decide to continue this or give him some or all civil rights.

This is my opinion on Trip and this is is how I think we should treat refugees in Spain.

Aidun Cian the older

[History Guy]

Senor Aidun, my friend, I must agree with you on several points.

However, I must say that a thane lord is the lord of a household or tribe. For example, though not a member of the council, Senor Plague Rat is a thane. We leaders of tribes are all thanes. If Sultan Trip were to take his family to our country and declare himself the head of the family, he would be a thane and a noble.

If he comes, he should have no rights. But I think that he is too dangerous to be allowed to come to us.

Forgive me also for my sense of justice. I have always felt that a criminal should be punished, and a fool should be corrected. Sultan Trip is both. Were we the Warmongers, I should be greatly tempted to slice his bloody head off as he comes to us for refuge. But we are civilized, and civilized men do not commit such crimes. Nor do they sack cities and slaughter the civilians, such as the Neu Demogypticans have done.

Have a squid.

Fernand de History Guy Calamari
Squid Baron

[Aidun]

Fernand, have a squid too. We can meet at the Tavern Iberian Delight.

About thanes: to have a family and be head of it doesn't mean that you are a noble too. If Trip comes here, he will get the refugee status: no civil rights: no citizenship: no nobleship. One who isn't a citizen can simply not be a noble.

When Trip becomes integrated - he is no more a Luxian (the rememberings to Lux have been faded out) - he can get fully or partly the Spanish citizenship. This means that he has several or all civil rights. I leave it up to further discussion if he should have political rights: the right to become an advisor.

Having all civil rights doesn't mean you are automatically a noble. the despot or leader of the country has to raise you and your family to nobility. This was automatically done in the early days, I suggest that our despot now decides from case to case if he wants to raise a former refugee, who has gained at least ALL (not just a few) civil rights, to the nobility.

Aidun Cian the older