A Personal Request from Trip

[ThePlagueRat]

What I hate most, is when people are talking trash behind others backs out-of-game. When someone writes something about someone, other readers here might start to believe in it. And that is all us people around this world not knowing the person involved... Nevertheless, some people start talking shÃt. I don't know him either, but he seem ok to me. So I don't have a foundation for judging the guy as a person. Do any of you have? I don't really care what happens to Trip, but I think he is not a problem. He is just another kid...

Enough of my moralistic doctrine.
We can allow ourselves to be critical of course. And ask some questions regarding his merits:

Why is this guy collecting all these votes in the demogames?
Some of us might have voted for this guy in the SPDG perhaps?
Why do certain people fear him? Are they afraid to lose their mask?

[Togas]

A possible "issue" that I should present:

While talking with Vox during our summit the topic of Trip wanting to join us came up and they seemed unhappy at the prospect of him joining our team. Not because they wanted him, either because they are unhappy with him or because they don't want him to tell us his secrets.

However, the following discussion regarding Trip was also had during our Summit...

[Jon_Miller> trip shouldn't join your team
[E_T> why do you say that?
[Jon_Miller> he claims to ahve looked at the save
[Togas> Oh really?
[E_T> WHAT?
[E_T> as in cheating?
[Dissident> I had not heard that
[Jon_Miller> after the end
[BetaHound> wow
[Jon_Miller> recently, when I was talking to him
[Togas> did he post that somewhere??
[Dissident> yes Jon has been talking to him
[Jon_Miller> know
[Jon_Miller> no, chat
[Togas> hrm. that could make things problematic.
[Jon_Miller> i want'ed to make sure no har dfeelings
[Jon_Miller> but, I would consider Trip joining any team problematic (before he made that said that I had been pressiong him to join Vox)
...
[Togas> we're certanly not recruting him, we just got a Pm from him where he requested to join.
[Jon_Miller> ah, maybe beofre he looked at the save?
[Jon_Miller> whenw as this?
[Togas> he PMed me on Saturday.
...
[Jon_Miller> hmm
[Jon_Miller> just to tell you
[Jon_Miller> if trip joins you, we will tell the other teams that he claims to have looked at the save
[E_T> he said that?
[Dissident> well he could take an oath not to divulge such information. but I doubt we could believe him
[Togas> Gotcha. Sounds like Trip made a pretty bad impression on you guys.
[Jon_Miller> I am fine with tri[
[Jon_Miller> I was cool with him claiming to look at the save
[Dissident> But it seems to me he did that because he didn't expect to play anymore. So he shouldn't
[Togas> We're going to have to think very carefully about his request and how it would affect other teams
[Jon_Miller> I am not dine with him joinng a team afterwards
[Jon_Miller> just fairness issues there
[E_T> we don't allow cheaters, we almost had a revolt, when we accidentally sent that wrong save (the double porduction thing) along time ago
[BetaHound> I recall that.
[Togas> yes.
[Dissident> He is very into civ3. And he had some different ideas about how to play the game.
[Jon_Miller> yes
[Jon_Miller> I wish that he had not looked at the save
[Dissident> He had some great ideas that we have never thought of
...
[Jon_Miller> I think he would still have had sometihng ot offer any team he joined
[Jon_Miller> ok
[Dissident> but his actions seem to indicate he is done with this game

I need to get a statement from Trip about this just to be fair. I will post it as soon as I get it.

--Togas

[Togas]

I spoke with Trip in chat, this is his response:

Trip> it's true that I've looked at the save, and I did tell Jon Miller
Trip> which is why I emphasized observation in my PM
Trip> my part in this story
Trip> and I just want to watch from now on
Trip> that was the way I made sure that I couldn't honorably be involved any more
Trip> all is fair within the game, but if there's anything I'm opposed to more than cheating, I'm not sure what it would be
Trip> which is why I mentioned in my PM that it would be an "act of goodwill"
Trip> since I do intend to just watch from now on
Trip> and as I also mentioned, Roleplay offers the kind of environment I would like to watch from
Trip> I don't mind if everyone knows, or else I wouldn't have told anyone

So if he did join, it would be conditional, we would receive no benefit from his input ... or detriment. But we would have to explain publicly to everyone, and have Trip explain, that he is an observer only.

--Togas

[E_T]

Let him post in the PTW Forum and let the other teams (and members) voice their opinion about it. IT WILL be know to them, whether or not he tells them, so it's better that he comes clean about it NOW, before we make any desicion on this issue and possibly accept him in our team.

I'm still against him being here, no matter what. This just reinforces my previous opinion is all.

E_T

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by ThePlagueRat
What I hate most, is when people are talking trash behind others backs out-of-game. When someone writes something about someone, other readers here might start to believe in it. And that is all us people around this world not knowing the person involved... Nevertheless, some people start talking shÃt. I don't know him either, but he seem ok to me. So I don't have a foundation for judging the guy as a person. Do any of you have? I don't really care what happens to Trip, but I think he is not a problem. He is just another kid...

I have to fully agree with PlagueRat here. While I wouldn't allow him to get any job position at the team, I'm ok with him being here (under condition that he tells his story as Pikesfan said ). But this also work with any other member of any vanquished team. As I stated previously when this was discussed, new members from former teams should have voice but not vote until they are promoted to full citizenship. This is a fair compromise between not leting them in at all or giving them full rights just after they join.

Also, as Nuclear Winter said, he did the rest of us a favor by razing that cities. Imagine what would happen if ND had 3 extra cities by now. We should give him some credit for that. Just not let him put his hands on the RP chain of command and everything will be ok.

Anyway, as this is a so sensitive issue to be decided by single majority, maybe him could be let inside as far as 2/3 of the voters agree. More than 2/3 is giving too much power to a single person.

[astrologix]

I'm not sure that I want Trip in our team, even if he remains only an observer.

Otherwise, all other teams must agree on the fact that if we win this game, they all will recognize our victory independently of the Trip admission in our team (EDIT : I mean due to the hypothetical cheat from the illegal knowledge coming from Trip)

[DAVOUT]

Or the other teams agree that if we survive another 65 turns, DESPITE THE PRESENCE OF TRIP, we are declared winners of the game.

[ruby_maser]

I don't know if the this has been settled yet. I would have no problem with allowing Trip to join if he hadn't made it impossible for us to do so without a diplomatic fallout.

However, I would be interested in knowing what light he could shed on Vox policies and their general secrecy.

I think we should cultivate an open relationship with him for those reasons and because I feel no ill-will towards him and perhaps even offer to keep him informed on game progress, but I think he should be made to understand that his admission of looking at the save creates a conflict of interest that our team cannot ignore.

[edit]: it seems I am too late

[Crousto]

If he looked at the save, he shouldn't be allowed to join any team. OK he might just be there reading some posts in the private forum and never posting, but nothing will ensure this to the other teams. He can still watch the game from the public forum, I guess most important events will be echoed there now that each team is pratically in contact with everyone.

[CiverDan]

I agree he shouldn't be able to join a team if he has looked at the save. At least not until his knowledge that he gained by looking at it is either irrelevant, or is known by everybody in the game. This will be for many turns at least. If not everyone give up their WM, maybe never.

[Aidun]

Originally posted by E_T
Let him post in the PTW Forum and let the other teams (and members) voice their opinion about it. IT WILL be know to them, whether or not he tells them, so it's better that he comes clean about it NOW, before we make any desicion on this issue and possibly accept him in our team.

I support this idea. Let Trip tell the others in a new thread what he has done and what he is up to.

Togas can give a small additional explanation that Spain is willing to let in refugees from other countries that are conqered, only if we decide to have such a policy.

After the others have made up their minds and posted their comments on Trip's plans, we can decide again.

I personally would have no problem with Trip joining our team if the international comunity decides that they have no problem with it.
Trip shouldn't however be given the civil rights of Spain, which includes the right to go for a political job. I don't want him to be able to change our destiny even if the system makes that very difficult for him.

BTW we seem to become the Netherlands of the 17th century if we let Trip in: a place for refugees, that are hunted down in other places in the world, to stay in freedom without being pursued.

Aidun

[ThePlagueRat]

Most important of all:
Let's try not to be looked upon as the badboys. If we promptly refuse, Trip can start (pretending) to be offended, or say things in the chat rooms. Let's try to look as nice as our logo...

[MrWhereItsAt]

/me is confused again

What's wrong with looking at the save? Didn't it just show information available to Lux anyway?

[GeneralTacticus]

No, he looked at the save in a manner which exploits a bug, allowing him to see information he shouldn't have seen.

[ThePlagueRat]

Hmm, isn't that called cheating?
Why the Helheim did he tell everybody he did that?!