Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[Togas]

DeepO,

We're cutting forests per your request, and would ask that those tiles be RR'd too ... they should be done within 3 turns.

Should we move the seawall out of the way NEXT turn or the turn after? Would you be able to come back later and RR a few tiles that got missed, like the forest tiles we're cutting?

Also, my team has asked me for an update on the world picture ... who has what and who's doing what. If you wouldn't mind, could you fill us in on who's where in the tech race and on what schemes are currently underway ... who's going to attack who?

We're going to build riflemen as soon as we get Nationalism. Vox has offered to sell it to us. Can you give it to us or should we buy it from them?

We're going to build Conquistadors and Galleons as well, once we complete Nav in 6 turns.

Thanks again for your help

--Togas

[Togas]

Togas,
Okay, an update. I'm sorry we're not more chatty lately, but as usual our diplo corps is nearly non-existant... the team has been quiet as there aren't many exiting things happening.

Tech:
We're researching Corp, and have electronics (from ToE). Further, we got Sanition from GoW. (Indus from Lego).

It looks like we're going to enter some kind of alliance with GoW, but there has been little talk about this, just some kind of mutual understanding that if we don't do something, we're both dead. We're hoping that we just traded our last tech to Lego, which from now on (hopefully) will get isolated, at least in techs.

ND has been erradic as of late, they're buying their techs, while in full expansion. I don't think they can keep up the pace, techs are coming at 4-turn between. They are the primary reason Lego hasn't been isolated already, as they freely traded for Lego's techs. (which were in most cases the same as ours)

GoW is also doing a good job of building unis... So far, we're trying to split the tree with them: their going for Rep Parts, we're going for Coorp. Normally, we'll do steel, they'll do refining. After that, nothing has been decided yet, but we should get to both tanks and marines at the same time. After that, it won't take long until war breaks out (should be in some 25-35 turns, as a rough guess). We would love to take on Lego, GoW is obviously also looking to ND. Nothing final yet. Main thing is that GoW does not get any idea of invading us, they probably wouldn't be able to destroy us, but would seriously damage us nevertheless.

Don't move your units out of the way next turn, but the turn after that (so not in 830, but probably in 840). Please wait until we can spot if any boats from others are close by. We've got a perfect defense so far, no need to compromise it.

Currently, we're RRing all flat land, so once that has been done for you, we'll return home with our workers and RR all our hills and mountains. After that, we'll return for you. If you have any other things that need to be done, just ask, we've got plenty of workers, and are planning on having lots more. But you understand that as long as you didn't benefit from it, we looked at our own territory first to improve it. The forest is the only thing we can't help you with, though, we can't cut it as the game won't let us.

What to build: riflemen is of course good, but you might also think on prebuilding factories (enough ancient wonders doing nothing), we will be able to give Indus to you in 19 turns. Nat will have to wait another 18 turns. We will give those to you, so don't spend money if you don't have to... the next 19 turns, you are guaranteed to be safe behind the sea wall, marines won't appear for another 25 turns at least. And we'll probably be the ones getting them first. By that time, we'll probably be in mobilisation, as it is one of the only possibilities we have of keeping up with the others... we're #4 in land.

I trust this does not go any further then our 2 teams, most of the things mentioned here were not told to any other team.

Any questions: just ask...

DeepO

[Togas]

Rhoth,

We are interested, and would like to know if you'd give us a deal on it.

If your price is good, we'll buy it early. If not, we'll wait for the NTA to run out.

--Togas

[Togas]

Togas,

a bit of a miscommunication, we were planning on doing the tiles covered by your sea wall in 2 turns, as then we could scout with our galley if there was no risk in removing the defenders. But no harm done, nobody invaded us

Please cover your hill again, we're not RRing that one yet (only after our hills), and cover the forest (chopping, probably). If you want any extra mines: tell us now!

Next turn, we should have all your flat land, so we'll be gone to our hills. We'll return later for the rest.

DeepO

[Togas]

RE: RE: PTWDG Vox nationalism deal
Hi Togas,

We were thinking of a starting price of 300 gold or 15gpt (or a combination of the two). We can negotiate however.

Regards,

Rhoth

[Arnelos]

To: DeepO
CC: Arrian, Cort Haus, asleepathewheel

DeepO,

With Togas' absence, I am now in charge of RP Team. I just read through the turn reports over the past 20-30 turns and Togas' commentary on other issues. What I need now is some discussion with your team about plans for the future and how best we can fit those plans. I have some general inklings from what Togas was focusing on and what I know from our internal team discussions about 15 turns ago about plans regarding Legoland, but we haven't heard much since then AFAIK.

Frankly, I think it would be highly productive if we had a joint planning session of some sort where you guys could inform me/us of what precisely what you're intending to do and how we can fit within that. My primary concern is what I should focus on with building priorities over the near future and knowing what you guys are planning to do is critical for those decisions.

The other area of interest is that we seem to have something of an odd issue here with diplomacy. I have some ideas about how this might be conducted differently in the future with our teams to take better advantages of our strengths as well as to collaborate more, but it will require some discussion.

Frankly, I'm tempted to suggest that some means of an alliance forum or discussion location or format would be helpful... perhaps an e-mail discussion (using a short list of people on each side), assuming people don't mind receiving the e-mails?

Let me know about these things.

- Arnelos

P.S. I'm CC'ing Arrian, Cort Haus, and asleepathewheel with this PM, since Trip informs me that they are also relatively active on GS right now.

[Arnelos]

To: Rhothaerill, Beta, Zayxus, Vondrack, ZargonX, Kloreep, Master Zen

Message:

(recipient),

I'm sending messages out to the leaderships of the various teams notifying them of my position as turnplayer and leader of RP Team during Togas' absence. I may also have a heightened role after Togas' return, don't know.

Please send all diplomatic traffic/requests for RP Team to me for now.

Thanks.

- Arnelos

[Arnelos]

From DeepO of GS:

Hi Arnelos,

Sounds good to me, a bit of cooperation can't hurt at all. an e-mail discussion is certainly a possibility, I would suggest chat as well if something was not amiss on my side, and I could enter the 'poly server.

planning of course is not purely our thing, however it would probably be best if you could, in some 30 turns time, more or less take care of your own defense. Around that time, GoW is going to receive marines, and even if we are gearing for a Lego invasion with them, you can't ever trust them. Further, for our trip abroad, conquestadors would be superb, toghether with the means to transport them.

Building plans should probably be focused to that: gold and units. In 14 turns time we can give you industrialisation, so prebuilding factories in your best cities might work well.

As to diplomacy: ours has been lacking, as usual. That includes the communication between us and RP... simply too little activity, I guess. It is not ideal, however, that you acquire things from other parties which we can also provide you, for free. As much as possible, I tried to give you the end of our NDA's on techs in last PM to Togas. Horses you can have for free, coal you don't need as we'll RR everything for you, iron you're already receiving. The only thing we can't really help you with is lux. I do understand your wish to participate actively in this game, which for your team means a lot more chatting to others then it does for ours, however sometimes the results of this aren't really productive, or could at least be handled more efficiently.

Anyway, It seems I'm starting the discussion here, instead of over e-mail or in chat My address is steven.bex@chello.be, please use that, and I'll include everyone on our side who is interested in following it live (it will be posted in our log, of course). Please feel free to ask whatever you want.

DeepO

[Arnelos]

From me back to DeepO of GS:

DeepO,

I think I would prefer that we had a chat if you guys can actually make those. Our experience with setting up chats with your team in the past has been relatively spotty, however... so that's why I suggested an e-mail discussion. If you can do a chat, I'm on 'poly's chat server much of the time. If we can schedule a chat, I'll be there.

As for other issues you brought up, thanks for the warning on the timing for industrialization. I'll definately have us plan ahead on when to start factory pre-builds. In the meantime, most of our cities have already completed markets, banks, temples, cathedrals, aqueducts, etc.... so pumping out a few conquistadores and/or riflemen wouldn't be bad. I know we're running at 20 spt in both El Paso and Monterrey right now, less in the other three, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pump out a few before starting on the factory prebuilds (unfortunately, conquistadores take 70 shields, no? If so, a few more RR's wouldn't be bad to get us up to 24 spt if possible).

The other issue is replacing the catapults on the wall with riflemen/infantry and eventually upgrading our cats to artillery. By the time GoW has marines, we're going to want fortresses on the mountain tiles (and probably the hills) stocked with infantry and artillery, along with our coastal cities stocked with similar defenses. I suppose GS can probably contribute the bulk of the counter-attack force, though we probably can contribute some if we have them available.

The thing I most need from you guys are building priorities... beyond the factories, what do you need us to build most. This is especially important for force composition and role. That's the main reason why I want to talk long-term plans with you guys, so I know what to be building to match the role that RP team could fulfill within such plans.

Anyhow, it would be good if we could schedule a chat. Let me know when members of your team would be available for that.

Thanks.

- Arnelos

[Arnelos]

I've been batting PMs back and forth between DeepO and myself for a day and a half now trying to set up a chat. I'm currently sitting in #RP-GS on irc.atomicchat.net waiting for DeepO to show up, hopefully at some point this evening.

If not, I'll go ahead and play the next save anyhow. No sense in holding up the entire game just for this.

[Arnelos]

Long chat with Master Zen of GoW about tech issues...

In #apolytonisdg:

Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> 4RP Team is looking for something to research.... it would sure help if we had more techs so we could research something USEFUL
* MasterZen rembers offering RP techs long ago and has got no answer :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> You have one now
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> what are you offering?
MasterZen> whatever you're missing :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I have a list:
MasterZen> lol
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Economics, Military Tradition, Industrialization, Medicine, Sanitation, Replaceable Parts, The Corporation
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We also don't have Music Theory or Free Artistry, but I doubt anyone cares about those

In #isdgfam (ah, the infinite uses of that channel):

MasterZen> talk here
MasterZen> Kloreep is EVIL lego
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I know
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we can talk in here
MasterZen> I offered Togas the following deal a while back
MasterZen> we are interested in your Incense but we know you only have one
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> no can do
MasterZen> so I suggesting trading one of our wines for your incense and adding a tech to juice up the deal
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we're riding the line between revolt and non-revolt in at least 2 cities right now
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> now, wine for incencse has some potential merit
MasterZen> think about it
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> doesn't do jack for us, helps you. That's the reason for the tech(s), I suppose.
MasterZen> exactly
MasterZen> a free tech every 20 turns isn't so bad is it? :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I'll have to consult with others on this, of course
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> but personally, I like it
MasterZen> cool
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we need tech really really badly
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> btw... what the hell is the plan against Lego?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We've heard from both ND and GS on that over time, but nothing from you guys
MasterZen> first step to war is to build a war machine
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> donegeal wouldn't say jack to me last night, so I'm asking you
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> (actually, that was 2 nights ago)
MasterZen> after said war machine is up and running, we may begin planning
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> point is... RP team is interested in helping, but we need to know what you guys want us to build
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we can now build conqs if you need them... not that they'll help all THAT much
MasterZen> I must consult with GS on this
* MasterZen personally would prefer to just nuke the living crap out of lego
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We just finished 40-turn reserach on Nav
MasterZen> ah cool, so, which tech you want for Nav?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> you don't have it?!?
MasterZen> nope :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> wow
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> does anyone?
MasterZen> we were waiting for you to finish it :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> lol
MasterZen> Lego does, GS does I think
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> heh
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I wonder if Vox does
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> probably
MasterZen> in fact, we could actually really really use that tech right now
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I'd imagine
MasterZen> so, name your price
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> actually, I need to consult with others on that as well
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> geesh
MasterZen> ok, get back to me on that soom
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> My personal preference would be for Replaceable Parts, but we'll see
MasterZen> *soon
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> then again... Medicine would be nice
MasterZen> duh, I can't give you Rep Parts if you don't have anything before that :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we'll see
MasterZen> are you guys even industrial now?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> yes
MasterZen> is GS selling you techs?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We've had Nationalism, Steam Power, and Electricity for a while
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> yes
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We pay GS for most techs
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Vox for others
MasterZen> ah, no wonder they have so much money for research :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> most of our income goes to GS and Vox
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> not all of it, though... we have a good bit left over that we're stockpiling
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> for what, god only knows
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> mostly short rushing is what I intend to use it for
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> that and upgrading rifles to inf when we get that far
MasterZen> well, the difference betweeen RepParts and Navigation is quite big... :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> :shrug:
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> look, we're how many techs behind?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> 7, I think
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> maybe 8-9
MasterZen> hey, it's not me, it's my team. If they find out I do this trade, I'll be ousted :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ>
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we'll see
WhiteBandit> well then they better not find out :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> pfft... what the hell is RP of any threat to you anymore?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> hell, we're willing to team up against Lego
MasterZen> yeah, I KNOW that, but others are not as fond of RP as I am :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> the rationale for keeping RP Team in the dark ages has long been dead
MasterZen> heck, i've been getting heat for not planning to go to war with anyone :P
MasterZen> I'm called the hippie emperor :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> you're planning to go to war with Lego last I checked
MasterZen> yeah, but planning hasn't started military-wise
MasterZen> ****ing ingrates, our empire is something it never was: PROSPEROUS
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I wish I saved the line from donegeal the other night where he quoted UberKruX when the game started "holy ****, donegeal, it's a LIBRARY!"
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> something like that
MasterZen> "holy ****, donegeal, it's a bunch of universites, banks and factories!"
MasterZen> I can't say just how much GoW has grown since I got to power :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> a lot
MasterZen> it would make Ghengis collapse :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> well, Ghengis sucks at Civ3
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so that's not saying much
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> besides... Lego stomps all your asses
MasterZen> well, they got an entire continent to themselves
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> no question this map was royally ****ed up
MasterZen> big time
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> oh how I wished I'd joined Legoland...
MasterZen> lol
MasterZen> bah, I like my GoW
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> they'd kick even more ass
MasterZen> even if we don't win, we had fun
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so, anyhow... pass that whole "It's been a long long time since we had any rationale for keeping RP in the dark ages" message on to the rest of your team
MasterZen> I will
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> GS and their honor code... they won't give us techs with NDAs
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so we're sorta stuck
MasterZen> honor code schmonor code :P
MasterZen> GoW has no honor
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> besides... if you guys want an actual partner against Lego, you have a vested interest in helping us actually produce a military that can at least add a token force
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> it sure as hell wouldn't hurt
MasterZen> I'll see what we can do
MasterZen> I for one, want that damn incense :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> of course, knowing the paranoid nuts on your team, they'll probably say "NO!!!! RP Team will just build up and attack us!!!!" like we could
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> You guys basically just need to decide if you want any help in your little crusade against Lego or not. If not, we'll just keep drawing pictures of animals on cave walls or whatever.
MasterZen> lol
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> btw... who was the one who first researched Industrialization?
MasterZen> Lego
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> well, screw that
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we could use that tech
MasterZen> ?
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> (screw the NDAs)
MasterZen> :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> err... NTAs
MasterZen> look, at the techs you asked in the other room, GoW could supply the followign:
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> GS said they can sell us that one in 12-13 turns... getting it sooner would be REALLY REALLY nice
MasterZen> Military Trad., Medicine, Sanitation, Replaceable Parts
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> hmm...
MasterZen> the others are bound by NTA
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> right
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> 1 we could get with Nav, the other with incense... got it
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we could also... gasp... PURCHASE more, you know
MasterZen> the team would VERY likely agree to medicine and santation
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> sanitation actually wouldn't be terribly useful
MasterZen> they would also VERY likely agree to RepParts but only that one tech for both Nav and the incense
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we don't have enough space for cities to go over 12 anyhow right now
MasterZen> as per buying them, we would be very open to such a proposal
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> look... right now, GS and Vox are the only ones beneffiting from the fact that we've been building nothing but financial institutions and buying tech
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> you want some of that cash?
MasterZen> he have no reason not to sell you techs
MasterZen> *we
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I think our excess income right now is in the ballpark of 70 gpt
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> though that might just be because we paid the last tech to GS off
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> ah, one of our 20-turn payments to GS wears off NEXT turn
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so we'll have even more disposable income around
MasterZen> not bad
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> basically, we're a cash cow... not good for much else at the moment
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> well, we can build some mil units
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> been building riflemen
MasterZen> ok, I'm done correcting this mess
MasterZen> time to sleep
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> ok, let your team know some of this crap
MasterZen> I'll bring up the tech issues to the team, you do the same :P
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> will do
MasterZen>
--- 3 LINES CENSORED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT IN OTHER GAMES ---
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> the tech we REALLY need is Corporation, I think
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Industrialization and Corporation
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> factories and stock exchanges
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> man would that help
MasterZen> well, if you're willing to wait for the NTA to expire, we'll gladly trade, other than that.. :S
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> GS is already going to give us Ind when the NTA expires
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I worked out the details on that with DeepO the other night
MasterZen> wait...
MasterZen> GS told us they researched Ind. themselves
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> maybe they're lying to us
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> but DeepO said he wouldn't give it to us yet
MasterZen> they're lying either to you, or to us :P
MasterZen> either way, we got it EARLIER than they did
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> when does your NTA expire?
MasterZen> must check, but if theirs expires in 12 turns, ours in like 7-8
MasterZen> you should try and get Corporation from them instead
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Corp requires Ind
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> that's the problem
MasterZen> yeah, we get you Ind, GS gets you Corp
MasterZen> it's either that, or you get both from GS
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we'll see
MasterZen> anyway, I need shut-eye
MasterZen> cya tomorrow
Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> ok, cya
* MasterZen has quit IRC (Quit: )

[Arnelos]

I sent this BEFORE that chat to DeepO of GS:

DeepO,

We just finished our research of Navigation.

We can research any of the following techs:

Music Theory
Free Artistry
Military Tradition
Industrialization
Medicine
Communism
Replaceable Parts

Of course, if you are able to give us ANY of these technologies, we would be enormously appreciative. For any that you are unable to GIVE us, please let us know who provided you these techs and I'm going to do my best to be downright annoying if I have to about trying to get some of them.

Ultimately, I'd like to do 40-turn research on something not already being researched if at all possible (or at least something GS is unlikely to receive in trade). Otherwise, there seems little point for us to even bother wasting a population point on a scientist rather than a tax collector.

Please advise on this soon. I'm holding the save until we can at least decide what to do with our research choice and whether to have a scientist or tax collector in El Paso.

Thanks.

- Arnelos

P.S. I'm going to try to be in that chatroom again today.

[Arnelos]

Response from DeepO just now:

Arnelos,

I'm sorry I wasn't able to make it to chatroom yesterday, and I'll be leaving on a WE-trip today. So that's not going to be good for meeting.

However, one thing: did you read the PMs I sent to Togas? In there, there was one with the eta of techs, most of which you mention here. All the non-optional techs we either have, or plan on having soon. We will give these to you, but only after NDAs run out, of course

Other then that, there's a bit of a problem. Best tech for you to research would be espionage. Mil Trad is of no use anymore (we don't even have saltpeter), Free artistry is of no use, and communism is being researched by Vox at a better pace. The others we already have. (rep parts last turn) Espionage needs Indus as a prereq, right? If so, it may be best to wait until we can give it to you, and start on Esp after that. Or perhaps acquire it from Lego, but we do not want to sponsor Lego any more then we need.

Allow me to check this on the forum, I'll ask that someone will contact you today, but for the moment I would assume you'd better go with a taxman instead of a scientist. At least until you can get Indus, and start on esp.

DeepO

[Arnelos]

My response to DeepO:

DeepO,

Actually, I just conducted a lengthy chat with Master Zen of GoW in which we discussed technology issues. He believes he can convince his team to sell us 1 tech in return for Navigation (which they do not yet have, oddly enough) and a second tech in return for a swap of our incense for one of their wines (doesn't help us, but would give them an extra luxury). Furthermore, we could get 1 tech from GoW every 20 turns to renew the luxury swapping deal.

Furthermore, Master Zen seemed VERY interested in the possibility of RP Team being able to pay them for techs.

The techs which GoW says they can give to us without breaking NTAs right now are:

Military Tradition
Medicine
Sanitation
Replaceable Parts

He said that members of his team might be inclined to treat RepParts as being worth Medicine and Sanitation put together, however. We'll see.

He also mentioned that he believes their NTA on Industrialization should run out in about 7-8 turns. While I know we could already get the tech from you guys in 13 turns, it might not hurt to get it sooner IF I could start the pre-builds in time to make use of the extra turns of factory production and the difference is worth more than getting another of those techs earlier.

The two techs we REALLY need to make us more useful would be Industrialization (factories) and The Corporation (stock exchanges). Once we have those, I can get up factories in all cities and have stock exchanges up in El Paso and Monterrey quite soon (the other cities still need to finish their aqueducts, but could then build factories, cathedrals, and banks before stock exchanges).

Ultimately, howver, we really want to start churning out mil units and factories would help A LOT with that. Stock exchanges would help us send more money to you guys, paying others for tech, or rushing/shortrushing.

Speaking of short rushing, we have enough money sitting around and building up at the moment that I want to seriously look at ways we can use short rushing to improve our building program, in particular those slow-moving aqueduct builds. I'll be looking more at that probably before the next turn rolls around.

The thing I really need to get a handle on, however, is where to place priorities, because there are a lot of choices at the moment. The main area is with MONEY. Where in most areas we are woefully behind most of the planet, we at least have a respectable income for such a tiny amount of land. I can spend that money on short rushing, rushing, money to GS, saving for upgrades, or spending on buying technologies from others (Vox, GoW, or even ND... probably not Lego). If GS could help in providing some guidance on where priorities on finances would be more helpful to your own aims, that would help A LOT.

As for chatting, I really would like a chance to chat with you or with a group from GS (though you would probably be best, since you're the turnplayer right now). If we can actually set a TIME, that would be best.

The other thing we really need is more collaboration on diplomacy, since I'm going to most likely be much more diplomatically active than we've been of late. I think I may have stepped on your team's toes at least once with something I said to Master Zen tonight that I didn't even realize might have been subterfuge on your part (Industrialization, that you wouldn't give it to us yet). Perhaps some of that was in the PM you sent Togas and I can go digging for it in our forum and my apologies if I missed any of that, but I'd like some means of closer collaboration on diplomacy so we can keep our stories straight and work in tandem when messaging those beyond the alliance.

Well, that should be all for now. Thanks again.

- Arnelos

[Arnelos]

DeepO's response:

Sorry I don't have more time to address these issues, Arnelos. Please hold off a while with trading with GoW: we want to trade that incense resource to them, but they have been not very responsive last time we asked. By trading it to them, you would 'steal' us the chance for an extra lux (they can reach more gems), and even if I know that in your case it's not nice you don't have more lux, for us it would mean a big difference in case of war. 10% of our slider is worth a lot more then 10% of yours, and you have to take that into account as well when trading lux. The tech you would be getting wouldn't cost you anything, but would cost us over 1000 gold.

I don't have the exact NDA's anymore, however I can look them up and send them to you. GoW can't be far in front of us, their 20-turn NDA's can only started 2 turns before ours at most. And I doubt that. By the time they would trade RP to you, we can give it to you, so again, this is not a good deal. And Medicine and sanitation the same.

Once we can, we will give you corp, we researched that one a few turns ago.

Sorry to be brief, could you for the moment take the 1-taxman approach, and could we meet e.g. this Sunday? I will be back from around 7pm GMT, so in case you could be present around noon your time, we should be able to meet.