Diplomacy: Reports, Instructions, PMs

[Togas]

Togas,

Thanks for the message, it's been posted in our forum.

Had you considered using cats instead of Pikes for the wall? They don't need barracks, they're faster to produce, can ping ships, and eventually upgrade to the delicious arty. Maybe a vet Pike in each city for show is all that's needed for now.

If you're at 10/40 on Banking, you'll have some cash to rush some of the units, and we have time to decide on future builds. I think we rushed a couple of cats in Beta and Wittlich last turn, to clear the way for handing them over. You and GoW will be able to grin at each other over the channel!

A rough estimate of potential - 5 cities with about 16 commerce each is 80 gpt, minus about 35 for unit and building upkeep leaves 45 gpt before lib/mkt multipliers. When we're fully at peace with everyone, hopefully in about 3 turns, GS might have a better idea where the others are standing in tech. and then make a research plan on that basis.

I think our worker is roading that tile you mentioned - we'll be off when he's done (as long as no enemy ships are around) and let you mine it

Regards,

Cort

[Togas]

Vox Controli Tech Deal.
Greetings to Togas, Arnelos, BigFree and the rest of the fine people of Roleplay.

We apologize for not returning your email sooner regarding this deal as the holidays beckoned.

Regarding our offer of Printing Press for tech, banking at 30 turns is indeed too far away for us. However we would be happy to work out a trade to send Printing Press to you for either gold or future tech concessions. We at Vox would be interested in what you would be able to offer and perhaps we can strike a deal from that. We look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

Rhoth

Rhoth,

We may be able to buy the tech from you. As you know, we don't have much money, but we will try to work with you. Do you have a proposed price for Printing Press?

--Togas

[Nuclear Winter]

I was talking to BF today on Civ3rp Migros (it is still there, chaps, you can join it when you want ) and I tought of something:
Why should we give peace to GoW for free? We are teh ones who control their war weariness, we have no reason to accept peace, we should demand something in exchange for a declaration of peace! We should ask for a city in bob, or tech, or reparations, or we should launch a permanent war against them, they just can´t invade us, so nothing to fear. we have some WW taking place, so it surely is diverting LOTS of money on their side.
We shouldn´t send the spannish guerilleros back ot work for the dreaded chinamen and for the infidels unless we gain something.
And a city back in spainwould be good because of 2 things:
1) our main objective is to get as much land on spain as we can get
2) in case of a future reconquista we could gift all our cities to GS, let them invade our capital and boom! autotransport of all our units to Port Reconquista!

So all we´re saying is give war a chance
please consider it Togas and rulers of spain,
yours truly,
Nucleari Winterius, the IV

[Aidun]

This is something for a discussionthread. but a for starting the distcussion. I personmally think that it wouldn't be bad to try to get something from GoW, but that counts for ND too.

It would but be good for our own development, or so I think, to establish peace on the short term. They may have war weariness, we must have it too and ww is hindering us more than them because we are smaller than they are.

Aidun

[BigFree]

The larger your cities are, the more WW hits you. Plus, we were not the agressor; WW is worse for them than it is for us. We need to let this play out. GoW adn ND might be willing to pay a heavy fee for peace at this point or in 10 turns or so.

[Arnelos]

My opinion is that we just stall for time. Master Zen contacted me in chat to ask what our team would be willing to do concerning peace and I told him that Togas had started a thread to discuss it. I'm basically just intent to stall for time right now.

I'm convinced that we'll eventually be going back to war with Glory of War and/or Neu Demogyptica, perhaps even in the near future. Given this, there is little incentive for us to END the war that we will thus have to rebegin ourselves and give them a happiness boost in the process.

It might be somewhat risky, but we could lay this out for them. That we anticipate a fragmentation in the current alliance framework and we anticipate that we will likely end up participating in service to at least one of the participants, perhaps Glory of War, perhaps not. Given this, we have little incentive to end the official status of war NOW so that when we have to inevitably redeclare (perhaps even very very soon), we will grant a happiness bonus to the enemy of our employer(s).

If Glory of War wishes, they can make us a suitable offer in regards to such a coming conflict involving the hiring of our service. Since we would then be aligned with Glory of War, we would of course end our state of war with them and keep it with whatever enemies such a new alliance might possess. Glory of War must understand, of course, that others may solicit what service we may be capable to provide instead and that they may wish whatever aid we can provide against Glory of War. If so, we would maintain our state of war against Glory of War.

On the contrary, if it becomes clear that the world will indeed be in a lasting state of peace for many ages to come and a new peaceful order seems fully stable, then we would end our state of war with all parties we are at war with, as we would agree that keeping such states of war would be unfair to the conduct of the game during a lasting international peace. Since we are highly skeptical that this will be the outcome in the near future, we aren't doing that yet.

Now, that's the line I'd feed Glory of War. It's also our true policy, as far as I'm concerned. I would like to state for inside-the-team benefit (only for now ) that I would prefer that we end up with Glory of War our enemy rather than our friend, but ultimately I'd like to help Gathering Storm win the game and we'll establish whatever enemies and allies that may be necessary to achieve that goal.

I'd also like to discuss this matter with Gathering Storm.

[Arnelos]

Oh, and if it's ok with Togas (and a balance of the team), I'll go ahead and lay out the line above to Master Zen so he can stop pestering me about peace.

[BigFree]

Sounds good to me.

[Hot Mustard]

First - Yes, I still lurk here.

Shame on those who wish to abuse our enemies with War Weariness!

In my humble opinion:
-It is unfair to use WW to hurt our enemies when we are effectively no longer at war.
-It is also unfair to use this knowledge as leverage in negotiations
-Our own people surely desire a conclusion to this struggle and peace after centuries of war
-Generations have passed since the initial personalities started the war - time enough to settle old insults and injuries
-We've left the warzone - why not the war?

This situation is similar to the ISDG - where our stance is notably different.

[BigFree]

How is it the same dejon? ND and GoW can reach us quite easily. We can reach them. Hostilities are not over.

[Togas]

I'm fine with the explaination that Arnelos laid out but I do agree with Dejon.

We have no real ability or intention of invading either GoW or ND in the near future, we only intend to hurt their economies through a silly game mechanic.

--Togas

[Arnelos]

Dejon,

In my opinion, we are obligated to either participate in a coming conflict on Bob involving GoW and/or ND (which I believe IS coming) and thus justifies us keeping war active in the short interim or we end the states of war, recognizing the beginning of a lasting peace.

I agree with you that should a lasting peace be what is in the future, we are obligated to go to peace. I would not feel comfortable continuing our state of official war simply out of spite to harm them with war weariness. I agree that this would be identical to the stance Lucky, et al in the ISDG.

My point is relatively simple... what if we're going to end up in an alliance fighting at least one of these parties in the immediate future (or at least our ally will be)? If so, we can make peace with whatever party or parties we are NOT fighting (even if not aligned to), but I see no reason to end our war and then immediately restart it with a party we're going to be aligned against anyhow in the immediate future.

[Hot Mustard]

I understand the reasoning, I'm just not comfortable with it.

I do not believe that a possible, future war and an obligation that we would be ill equipped to live up to in any meaningful way entitles us to abuse our knowledge of a game mechanic.

Look at it this way - would a real nation maintain a status of war with another nation (who still poses a threat), just to demoralize that nation's people? Especially considering that their own people would continue to suffer as well.

[BigFree]

Yes, they would, look at Korea. Look at India.

[Nuclear Winter]

You go ahead and do whatever you want, as always is the case, but I find total foolishness to try to play it "fair" with a nation who hasn´t played fair with us. They are despaired for peace, WW must be hitting them unconscious!!! We musn´t stop this!
And for the fact, it is like we are not letting our partisans in spain stop resisting to their aggression , since we did not formally accept peace.
As for GS, we have to thank them a lot for their help, but we shouldn´t agree if they suddenly said we should start gifting techs or gold to them.Not until this war is settled properly, wich it is not.