Luna el Salvador

[GeneralTacticus]

I understand Marcos Navarro de Tacticus, we have to prevent such charlatans of claiming to be priest and thus betraying the people.
I warn you however that if anything happens to me due to your determination, Luna el Salvador shall not be pleased and await a good chance for revenge.

Aidun Cian the Younger

First Priest of Luna el Salvador, the almighty god.

Such is not a concern, as if your claim is true, nothing bad will happen to you.

Now, in order to perform the test, we require cup of your own blood, upon which you must swear, on your soul, that you have told the complete truth about your god and your connection to him. We shall then perform rituals to further bind you to your oath. Once we have finished, you must drink it; if you have lied, you will immediately burst into flames which nothing can quench. If not, nothing will happen.

[GeneralTacticus]

I have to speak with our God. Please let us do it tonight when the moon is full and he can see us clearly. He shall aid me if I need him and I shall pass the test.
I go now, until tonight.

Aidun Cian the Younger,

First Priest of Luna el Salvador, the almighty

Give us the cup of your blood and swear your oath on it, then go and commune with your god. If you wish, you may drink the blood in the moonlight; it matters not where it is done.

[OliverFA]

[SIZE=1]However: the first monotheistic religion, Judaism, was established in the time mankind believed in natural gods.

IIRC judaism at first didn't denied the existence of other gods, it was after some time that it became fully monoteistic.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by Aidun
No he is our most wise God. I've called Him Luna for I believe the moon and the sun are His shining eyes that look down on our world....

If they are his eyes, he must be very nearly cross-eyed from staring at both sides of the world at once.... or is the world still flat?

[Aidun]

Senor El_Ruby_Maser,

Shut your mouth, we do not yet know that the world is round. The world is flat and if we don't watch out we'll fall off it.
As for the sun and the moon, there is no sun at night, but there is a moon. Luna el Salvador is not cross-eyed, because he has just one eye each stage of the day: the sun at day, the moon at night. Through these eyes He is watching us day and night. His watchful eyes the sun and the moon see everyting.

Aidun Cian the Younger

First Priest of Luna el Salvador, the almighty god.

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by Aidun
Shut your mouth...

You mean... callate el cico, heathen!

But, many that live deserve death... Perhaps I am one of them. After all I am 1530 years old. I am planning a most ignoble end for myself in the near future, if that makes you feel any better

[Aidun]

Allright Marcos Navarro de Tacticus, here is a cup of my blood, I shall drink it in the moonlight in the center of Madrid so everybody can see I am the true priest of Luna el Salvador. He shall aid me to pass the test. My first diciple Juan shall also be present.
I trust in you, Marcos Navarro de Tacticus, that you shall not use any offense against me, not by magic, not by poison and no physical offense. If such sins be committed, the revenge of Luna el Salvador shall be unimaginable. Luna el Salvador shall then be Luna el Destructor del Mundo, Luna the Destroyer of the world.

Aidun Cian the Younger

First Priest of Luna el Salvador, the almighty god

[Aidun]

Marcos Navarro de Tacticus, I'm ready to drink the blood. The moon is shining sharply on me. Please hand over the blood.

Aidun Cian the Younger

First Priest of Luna el Salvador, the almighty god

[GeneralTacticus]

Here you are.

[Aidun]

A crowd gathered around the High Priest and Aidun. Juan el Granjero was among them with his cousin Benicio el Pescador, Pedro Fernández and his brother Vincento Fernández, Domingo de la Peña, Carlos Arrieta, Miguel and Marcos Pérez, Pablo de la Viño, Diego Márquez, and Fernando de Pamplona. They were all friends of Aidun for years and had been tought the commandments of Luna el Salvador by Aidun after his appointment as First Priest. They were called Twelve Adeps, the ones who know the commandments.
"Listen," Aidun the Younger spoke, "the time has come for my approbiation as First Priest of Luna el Salvador our almighty god, our protector and savior in need. Let his light shine upon us, may it last for long. Have faith in your god."
And he turned to Marcos Navarro de Tacticus. "Marcos Navarro de Tacticus, most honoured and wise High Priest. I shall drink the blood that shall prove my right. Approve me as First Priest of Luna el Salvador."
Aidun the Youger drunk the blood.

[GeneralTacticus]

Lightning flashed across the clear sky with a sound like the end of the world. It arced back and forth until it seemed to form almost into rings around the sun, before lancing down upon Aidun, standing still with the cup to his lips. The crowd flinched away, but when the lightning had passed and they could see again, he still stood, unharmed.

The First Priest of Lune El Salvador.

With a slight smile on his lips, the High Priest bowed his head and stepped back. "Your God has delivered his own approval. There is no need for me to give mine."

[Aidun]

Aidun bowed and placed the cup before him on the ground. Then he kneeled, folded his hands and prayed.
"I have just thanked Luna el Salvador for aiding me just when I needed him. Have faith in him, trust him and he shall aid you in your our of need.
Marcos Navarro de Tacticus, most wise and noble High Priest, thank you for this approval. You and your family be blessed until the end of time.
Let us build a temple for Luna el Salvador on this spot and place the altar where I'm currently standing to honour and worship him. At the temple I shall present you his commandments. Praise Luna el Salvador! Let us Celebrate!"

Aidun Cian the Younger

First Priest of Luna el Salvador, the almighty god.

[History Guy]

[ooc] CRASH! What is this? There is no Polytheism yet, and still we have one god already, and this guy isn't even roleplay-correct!![/ooc]

[History Guy]

[ooc] I would prefer that we saw this chap as a Pan-like spirit of nature, not a god. We don't have gods until Polytheism, and we don't have Monotheism until, well, Monotheism. I'm willing to accept that this guy is a great spirit, one of the creator spirits, perhaps, the designer of nature, but not a god, as of yet. [/ooc]

[Aidun]

Arguments for this religion

[ooc]History Guy, we'we had that discussion before. Polytheism isn't needed to have gods and monotheism isn't needed to have but one god. Look at the history: Judaism was founded before monotheism was being discovered. The Israelians had not yet reached the middle ages when Moses came up, so they couldn't have discovered monotheism already.
It is for that reason that it is just generally accepted here that one needn't to have discovered monotheism to have but one god.

Having gods while polytheism is not yet discovered:
This is more difficult and you are right that a civ can't have gods before they have 'discovered' it (a religion is founded, not discovered).
If we look at the history however, two things are important:
1. The first polytheistic relions began small: the first gods were gods of weather, the sea, the death-realm, the sun, the moon, fertility, things that directly affected the people: having enough to eat, safety, especially at sea and things they could not declare: the sun, the moon and the death. The 'natural' gods were gods of more or less physical things. After them came the other gods and it took a long time before they became worshipped. These 'non-physical' gods were the gods of hunting, war, music, trade, currency - yes, the Romans had a godess of currency: Juno, domestic issus - again the Romans: Vesta. I consider polytheism as the tech that lets us 'discover' these 'non-physical' gods. The natural gods should then be discovered when mysticism is being discovered.
Founding our first religion when we have reached mysticism can even be considered as quite late: we learned how to build a temple when we discovered ceremonial burial and in the first city: the Babylonian city of Ur stood a temple where probably gods were worshipped instead of spirits.

These two arguments seem enough to me to found a monotheistic religion at this stage of the game.


About the roleplay: Luna el Salvador is a spanish god because it has a spanish name. I could also have named him Moon the Saviour, but that's not roleplay.
Roleplaying is not replaying the spanish history. It is, first, impossible to replay the spanish history: we can only do that on a map of Europe with all the other European countries represented; Civ3 is not suitable to replay a large part of history: not all civs did start at the beginning of time, some became defeated: the Babylonians; some came up and became strong powers: England; some fought themselves independent from their mothercountry: the Dutch from Spain, the Americans and the Indians from England.
A civil war cannot occur in Civ3 while it could in Civ2 (another realistic thing that was eliminated), like the catholic church splitting in a catholic part and a reformed part. This are some examples.
If we are not re-playing, but role-playing, we should use our imagination and try to think out new things that could fit in the spanish CULTURE. This, I believe is real roleplay and that is what I'm doing and what we're all doing by having spanish names, calling ourselves señors and señoritas, using spanish geographical names, and acting like a civ in the same technological stage would do.

I'd say: let our god become the most dominant god: let us build a church like the chistian church or the islam (but is political incorrect to mention the last one): a church that dominates all other countries. We have started now, lets keep on going.[/ooc]

Aidun