Vox Controli - correspondence & foreign affairs

[Kloreep]

Two problems I see with this:

A: Why would GS tell Vox anything? It doesn't sound to me like GS is proposing an alliance. It sounds to me like GS is saying "Hey, want to be taken advantage of as agents of chaos?"
B: Why would GS trust Vox again, even if Vox did "attack" MI and then tried something like proposing an alliance? Granted, the Voxodus went smoothly and cooperatively, but I doubt GS is going to bring Vox in to their military matters. Ever.

Oh, and C: Even if this works, do you really want to see the flame wars if Vox betrayed GS again?

[lmtoops]

Something here doesn't make sense, but I will assume that GS did contact Vox with this proposal.

I don't see any great advantage the intelligence information would provide us. It may help GoW-ND, but that is a big maybe. Meanwhile, we dirty our reputation on this questionable ploy.

No, I don't like the idea, but it was worth discussing.

[Tiberius]

We have pledged to defend Vox and if they attacked GoW that would mean war between GoW and us. Maybe this was in GS's head. They were hoping that Vox, nostalgic after its former glory and eager for some action, will bite and thus would drag us into the war, against the GoW+ND alliance.

Which means GS still have no idea what's going on, which is good

What Radek is proposing is interesting, it'd be the biggest trick of the whole game However the level of deceivement involved is maybe too much for a GS who has already members leaving the game because of flame wars, imagined conspiracies and whatnot. This would only fuel their "everybody against the strategists" conspiracy theory and they may very well withdraw from the game. Too bad, I liked the idea.

[vondrack]

Yes, Tibi is hitting the nail on the head.

GS really hoped to draw us into the conflict through our Vox protection pledge (it was mentioned in Velocyrix' message) and I, too, believe it's a very reliable evidence of that they know nothing about what's going on.

I agree that a marvellous deception like this would quite likely make GS members feel screwed BIG time. Probably to the extent of withdrawing from the game completely.

What we should decide here is:

Shall we request that Vox NOT pursue this idea and TURN DOWN the proposal of GS, whatever the basis of their "cooperation" would be?

Or shall we let them do whatever they feel is fine, as long as it does not interfere with our own plans - that is, as long as they do no real harm to us, neither GoW, nor ND?

Beside GS feeling over-betrayed, there is one more counter-aspect to keep in mind... Voxes would still like to have some thrill with PtWDG. Strictly limiting them to building harbours and libraries is not exactly the way to make the rest of the game fun for them (and yes, I do know that they would be dead by now, if we saved them not... but still...).

I am starting to think the best course of action for Vox right now would be keep all options open - not turning the proposal flatly down, but "negotiating some"... not saying 'yes', not saying 'no', simply trying to find out what exactly they could make out of it. Since... what if GoW was cool with SELLING them Baby Bob?

Once again, I believe thet the crucial question here is:

Do we feel so strongly about the whole issue that we request Vox TURN DOWN the proposal of GS, NOT pursuing it any further? Or do we grant them some freedom regarding the matter?

I myself am quite undecided yet, still waging pros and cons - perhaps this might be a good issue to vote on...?

[redstar1]

I don't think it's going to be fair to ask VOX to do what we say.... I would suggest requesting of them that they do not engage in hostilities until after the current war is over, at which point we will be happy to discuss the possibility of a joint operation

I would imagine VOX have no interest in currently attacking MI, nor do we have any interest in them doing so.

I also don't think that us promising to protect VOX extends to them attacking another Civ, and I'm sure GS think this as well. I would imagine its more of a ploy to deflect GOW's attentions away from RP/GS and bob in general and get them to eye up land on Legos. I would hazard a guess that GS has proposed something similar to GOW.....

My suggestion is to tell VOX to do whatever they feel, but make them aware of our position and the fact that we offer them protection until they appear to not need it, which if they attack GOW we would assume they do not...

[vondrack]

Just to clarify: Voxes were briefed on our position in this war and are fully aware of where we stand, no worries. There have never been any thoughts about attacking Mystery Isle and GoW for real. We are speaking about a completely staged conflict only.

And btw - GS really did hope our ties with Voxes might get us involved. It's expressly mentioned in the memo Velocyrix sent them. They were perhaps not 100% sure it would work, but we are not assuming things here. It WAS expressly mentioned.

[redstar1]

Even so, its not logical...... either its an act of desperation or part of a bigger ploy....

[ZargonX]

I would have to agree that we should leave the decision up to Vox. They are suppsoed to be our little brother, not our vassal As I mentioned in chats with Kloreep last night, for GS to turn around and expect cooperation on such matters from their recent bitter enemies shows that they are either naive or desperate. If Vox turns around and tricks them, it's nobody's fault but their own. So, I say we let Vox make the call, and then work with whatever decision they go with. A well-staged ruse could be a beutiful thing indeed

[Kloreep]

Sounds good; let's let Vox (perhaps jointly with GoW?) decide what to do with this. If both Vox and GoW want to go ahead with a ruse, why not?

BTW, what if this goes one level higher, and this is just GS trying to convince us they don't know where we stand? Never be too certain...

[vondrack]

Alright, I will PM Beta and tell him to do whatever they feel is best.

And yes... let's not underestimate the opponent...

[Kloreep]

I suggest sending Vox Education next turn. The only other team without Education is RP, and the only one who would trade with them (GS) has agreed not to sell Edu without consulting us. In short, no reason not to share the tech with our allies.

[Tiberius]

Agreed. Let's make a little gift to Vox

[vondrack]

OK, adding it to the turn plan.

[ZargonX]

Yes, agreed.

[vondrack]

Just realized I haven't posted a brief message from Rhothaerill...

Good evening Vondrack.

I opened up our save tonight and what do I see but a nice little gift of Education from Lego. On behalf of Vox, thank you!

I also wanted to keep you apprised of our research situation. We will have Printing Press 22 turns from 280ad. At that time we will gift you the tech. If Lego is able to send us Banking by then we will be able to begin work on Democracy like the plan that was worked out several weeks ago. With any luck our two nations will be the first to feel a democratic enlightenment.

Again thanks on behalf of Vox.

Regards,

Rhoth.