Vox Controli - correspondence & foreign affairs

[Tiberius]

Did they get the LM minimap (screenshot) from us? Let them plan their 9 cities (I didn't even think that it was remotely possible to squize 10 cities in that little, mountaneous peninsula )

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Did they get the LM minimap (screenshot) from us? Let them plan their 9 cities (I didn't even think that it was remotely possible to squize 10 cities in that little, mountaneous peninsula )

Yes, I did send them a full map of Legos Minor. It was this one:



And I have also sent them two maps outlining whatever I was able to come up using my city placement templates, accompanied by some comments. Including them here for your information. 10 cities will fit there just fine.





And if anyone cares, these were my comments:

1) Southernmost city ("Panama Vox")
This is actually a pretty cool location - it would be a "canal" city, allowing your vessels to sail freely around your land, taking always the shortest route - making it almost an island... It would also be a key stronghold against any invasions coming from Legos Major (hmm, as if there were plans for any... nevermind ). With a temple/library and a harbour, it will have a LOT of water tiles to work, plus two hills - max pop 13 even before railroads & electricity, after the desert gets irrigated and railroaded, max pop 15-20.

2) the city N of Panama Vox ("Guadalajara")
Pretty much the same as Panama Vox, but it will not be a "canal" city. Slightly worse, but not much. You will be able to work all water tiles plus two hills. Plus all the desert tiles after you irrigate/RR them. Max pop 10-12 before RR+el, 10-17 afterwards.

3) the city NE of Guadalajara ("Houston")
This city will become useful after the discovery of electricity. With all five plains irrigated & RRed, you will have a surplus of 7 food. That will allow you to work all coastal tiles, plains, and hills in the city radius (except one that will be worked by Guadalajara), plus two mountains. Will become a production powerhouse, but only after some time. The start will be slow, though - but the forest chops will help to get the basic city improvements (temple/lib, harbour) done a little bit quicker. Max pop 6 before RR+el, 10-15 afterwards.

4) the city by the iron mountain ("Irony")
Not a splendid location, but gives you your own iron. With a harbour, it will be able to work all coastal tiles plus the iron mountain. May borrow grasslands from the capital, if there is a need for quick growth. Max pop 10-13 before RR+el, 10-16 afterwards.

5) the city SW of the horse ("New Orleans")
Most of the comments on Houston apply here, too. Will become more useful after you irrigate and RR the plains between Houston and New Orleans. With templ/lib+harb and irrigated/RRed plains, you will have a food surplus of 3-5 (depends on how many plains Houston will work), allowing you to work all water tiles plus three hills. Max pop 9-14.

6) the city NE of the horse ("Orlando")
Once temple/library + harbour are in place, you will be able to work all coastal tiles, the whale, and three hills. Probably a production centre. Max pop 9-12.

7) the capital ("The New Voice")
The location of your capital may be a bit arguable, but I would lean toward placing it ONTO the bonus grassland instead of the grassland one tile NW or forests. The reason is quite simple - a more central (actually, almost ideally central) location. I am quite sure that the
one shield you'd "waste" this way will be more then balanced by lower waste in your other cities. Plus, there would be one small advantage to this location - it is not visible from the sea, so your hideout would not appear on any map, but ours (hopefully - as we believe nobody has landed on Legos Minor yet, but us). Forests will help you to build a granary quickly, may reveal a bonus grass... Max pop 6 before RR+el, 9 with all grasslands irrigated & RRed.

8) the city NEE from the capital ("Poortown")
The worst location, no doubt. All coastal tiles and two hills will be the maximum there. Max pop 4-9.

9) the city E of the golden mountains ("Halifax")
A decent location, 10 water tiles, 1-2 grasses (the bonus one overlaps)... With a temple/lib+harbour and irrigated+RRed grasses, the city will be able to work all water tiles, two hills, and both gold mountains. Max pop 10-14 pre-el.+RR, up to 17 afterwards.

10) the city W of the golden mountains ("Anchorage")
Another quite decent site. Max pop up to 17 pre el.+RR, up to 21 afterwards. Probably site #2 for you, as it can grow to pop 9 even w/o a temple or library. The fish is your only 2+ food tile, so this would be a natural candidate for a granary. With a harbour and granary, this city could be your settler/worker farm.

Well. I must admit that it is a bit better than I thought it would be. It is amazing how much one can squeeze out of such a bad land. Few more thoughts:

You will need as many settlers from your old homeland as possible, as those will be difficult to build for you on Legos Minor. OTOH, you'll be able to do with relatively few workers, as you will have only a limited amount of land tiles to improve. You will be getting most of your GNP from the sea... considering Persia is scientific, I believe you would probably do best if focusing on building a super-research empire. Get as much commerce from the coastal/sea tiles and pump it into research. Build mostly research facilities, marketplaces, and such. With a relatively small army (45 units of any kind), you would be able to make Legos Minor an unpenetrable fortress (lining your shores with units). Even after marines come into play, you should be able to run your new empire with just a decent army, focusing on the research.

[redstar1]

Looking at this more closely and doing some rough sums (as well as taking into account protection from 'big brother'). Vox ain't as dead as everyone thinks they are going to be. If they are prepared to they can make a valuable contribution to the greater Lego empire

[Tiberius]

Indeed, it is not as bad as I'd have thought

I'd have done it maybe slightly differetly (after a first look):

- Anchorage one tile NE; a powerhouse with one fish, 4 grasslands !! one hill and 2 gold-mountains;
- Halifax 2 tiles SE (interfering less with Anchorage and gaining one grass)
- scrap Poortown (it's almost useless anyway)
- Orlando one tile north (not sure about this)
(9 cities instead of 10)

Otherwise I couldn't do it better myself

[Tiberius]

@what redstar says: I have one crazy, no wait, one CRAZY idea about the endgame:

Should Lego be close to winning the game (for ex. being a few turns away to finish the spaceship) with the help of the Voxian scientist, I imagined this scenario (those with heart problems read further on your own risk )
- Vox would gift all its cities to Lego
- a Lego unit would take the Voxian capital (it cannot be gifted, afair) (can you imagine the boost to our powergraph?)
- all Voxians would join Lego "en masse" (all of them in the same time)
- Lego, together with the Voxians, wins the game

[vondrack]

Just a note: I do not claim this was an optimal city setup. Just one of the possible setups that was actually a pretty solid "little brother" empire. I believe that if Voxes properly emphasize the research (and they are scientific, which should help big time - think of the cheap libs & unis), they can indeed be a valuable partner to us.

The beauty of this is that TO US, Legos Minor would be pretty much useless even if using a brilliant city setup (because of the waste & corruption). To Voxes, this can be a pretty decent homeland, allowing them more than just to survive.

And as far as crazy endgame ideas go... Tibi, you might be surprised how much crazier thoughts I have already had... They're so crazy I cannot even indirectly point out what they were...

[redstar1]

Vegoland!!
LegoX!

[Tiberius]

Legovox!

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack
Tibi, you might be surprised how much crazier thoughts I have already had... They're so crazy I cannot even indirectly point out what they were...

We're still talking about the game, aren't we ?

[redstar1]

VoLegoX!

[lmtoops]

Hmmm...Vox does not even need to use their FP. So if there were a greater Legoland empire, they could have the cities and use their FP.

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by lmtoops
Hmmm...Vox does not even need to use their FP. So if there were a greater Legoland empire, they could have the cities and use their FP.

They can have RP's land.

[vondrack]

After a polite reminder, Beta sent us the official Vox response to our "neighbour treaty":

Greetings vondrack.

My apologies for not getting this back to you sooner, Agreement was reached very quickly within Vox, but discussion on the timing of the jump had overtaken the thread, and I never got back to it.

We Voxians are very much on-side with this proposal. In fact - we find the tech arrangement quite generous. Our plan is to max out on commerce and libraries to make us as quickly as possible a worthy partner in such a deal.

I think the wording of #8, which is a bit awkard right now - should read: V.C. agrees to no trading of maps... . As it stands now we could agree to 'prefer' not to do it, but still do it against our preference. Not that we would use such a loop-hole, but the revised wording would make it clear. Maybe we should add, "unless approved by Lego" in case there is ever a good reason that the alliance may want to trade it.

The only area of minor discussion was Clause #4, about Vox not declaring war on another country without your approval. It hurts our pride a bit - as a certain autonomy is lost. But - if I was in your shoes - and knowing our history , I would demand the same. You do not want to be dragged into Immortal Beloved 2 against your will. Also, as our commitment now is to fully support Lego economically, politically, and if need be militarily, this clause, in reality, causes us no problems.

To put it another way... after the failed war against GS, our objective in this game has been re-defined. We simply want to be second. It beats going out early.

So - on a more official note - I Beta, on behalf of Vox Controli, agree to the following treaty, in this the year 190 BC.

Treaty of The New Voice

1) Legoland agrees to give Legos Minor to Vox Controli as a new homeland. Legos Minor is defined as all land beyond the isthmus of Invoice/Benelux (see the map).
No Vox Controli settlement may be founded South of the site marked as "Southernmost Vox Controli City on Legos Minor". Considering the land shown on the map attached, Legoland will settle no more sites than Port Hammer and Invoice/Benelux.

2) Legoland will, at its earliest convenience, found and gift a 2-pop city on Legos Minor to Vox Controli, in a location specified by Vox Controli. Legoland will make reasonable efforts to protect this city from barbarians until Vox Controli is able to protect it with its own forces.

3) Neither Legoland, nor Vox Cotroli will ever accept a city trying to defect (aka "culture flip") to the other party.

4) Vox Controli will never declare war on another civ without Legoland's approval and consent. Legoland will never declare war on Vox Controli, except for fake/staged wars as needed for GA triggering, combat training ("GL factory") or worker exchange. Fake wars would be declared with the approval of both parties involved.

5) All techs researched by either Legoland or Vox Controli must be shared with the other team upon request. Any techs requested under this clause are subject to a permanent Non-Disclosure Agreement; the team receiving the tech may not trade/gift/resell it to anyone else without the giving team's permission. This does NOT apply to techs acquired by trading with third parties.

6) If Legoland lacks a strategic resource Vox Controli has, Vox is obliged to provide it to Lego upon request. If Legoland has a surplus of a strategic resource Vox Controli lacks, Legoland is obliged to provide it to Vox Controli upon request. In both cases, a reasonable balance may be requested in exchange.

7) As soon as reasonably possible, Vox agree to build a warrior to keep in reserve for triggering Legoland's GA (a sacrifice to a Merc).

8) Vox Controli agrees to no trading of maps of Legos Minor to other civs, unless specifically approved by Lego.

So... all they did was they made one clause more strict.

[Kloreep]

Message from Beta in the save e-mail:

Greetings Legolanders!

Status update. We have two scenarios - one that wraps up in 4 turns - one that gets it done in 3. We prefer the former.

That gives us 8 settlers and 12 workers, and a very small army - somewhat humbling for the nation which once had the largest military.

2 of the settlers are in galleys and still some 8-10 turns from landing at last count.

Engineering in 4 turns.

Does our 4 turn schedule fit with the founding of the new city?

Will keep you apprised of events from our end.

Cheers ... Beta,

[Kloreep]

And another with today's 110 BC save:

Greetings! And our deepest thanks for our new homeland! Trust you are having fun hunting barbs. Our lead galley is some 7 turns away, As per my PM of yesterday - jump set to happen in 3 turns. We are bringing a pre-packaged civilization. Open the zip-lock bag containing settlers, workers, and a small army - and simply add land. Presto! A civilization in one easy step.

Engineering up in 3. You may want to give some thought as to what we research next.

Poly is down right now.

Will post in the 'save sent' thread when it is up.

Regards - and again, thank you. ...Beta.

I suggest Vox research PP. It's about the only tech that can be done on 40 turn research.

Edit: Or, per vondrack's suggestion, they could shut down research... but we're probably going to be spending close to 40 turns on other techs, if not more, so PP would be useful.