Next turn plans up to 50AD

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
That's true, but not all settlers will go to Karina, or through Karina. Those that will go to Zargonia or other eastern cities will lose precious turns. Other than that, we need those roads not only to speed up settler deployment, but troops deployment too, should that be necessary. While for settlers a 2 turns delay is just that, a delay, for troops it could mean losing a city.
I'm not saying it is a must now nor do I have a problem building the road on the mountain. I was just merely pointing out that we will need that Legopolis-Red Bricks road sooner or later (the sooner the better), like it or not.

I agree 100%. But this is actually exactly the reason for preferring road builds on easy terrain over roading jungle - and it does not really matter whether the resulting road leads to Karina, Zargonia Bay or elsewhere. It will always speed the movement of our units (both combat and non-combat) up more, if we road the easy terrain first, difficult terrain last.

Btw, the "mountain route" from Legopolis to Red Bricks never slows units down - wherever you go, be it west or east coast, you are either as fast as with the "jungle route" or faster.

Looking at our city placement map, I agree, however, that if we decide to found Zargonia Bay after Karina & Forkmouth, it would probably be best to build the road SE-SE-SE from where Conan & Rover currently are (down to the tile SW of the mountain), but then continue E-E to build a road to Zargonia Bay first, getting back to finishing the road to Karina only afterwards - that would speed up our Zargonia Bay Settler from Legopolis as much as possible, while not affecting Karina in any way (the current combo will get ahead of the workers earlier anyway).

[vondrack]

Plans for 1325BC:

1) Angus S, then SE, then S, attacking the camp
2) Galleyleo Galleylei E-E-NE
3) Mighty Merc + Settler SE, then SE-S
4) Rover & Jimbo to road, Conan to guard them
5) Marky Merc to sentry
6) Legopolis to start building a Settler

[Tiberius]

1. OK, even though I fail to see in what way is that better than S, S (opening the goodyhut), then SE, attacking the camp?

2. You want the contact now, without delay?

3. , 4. , 5. , 6. OK

7. I'd rather change the production of Forkmouth to a worker. It is building it in 10 turns, exactly in time to grow to size 2. With a worker developing it, Forkmouth would be more valuable (and it could build the road to Sharpeheaven).
There is one more thing. What is really MercG doing there? The workers have cover, the settler for Karina has cover; the new settler for Zargonia won't be alone, either; MercG is idling. I'd move him in Forkmouth and build in FM a galley instead of a mil. unit , after the worker.

[Sharpe]

Plans for 1325BC:

1) Angus S, then SE, then S, attacking the camp
I would just go for the hut - agree with Tiberius S-S-SE

2) Galleyleo Galleylei E-E-NE
Agreed

3) Mighty Merc + Settler SE, then SE-S
Agreed

4) Rover & Jimbo to road, Conan to guard them
Agreed

5) Marky Merc to sentry
Agreed

6) Legopolis to start building a Settler
Agreed

7) Change Forkmouth production to Worker

New 8) Move Farmerville production from Wheat to mined grassland for the next turn (we don't need the food and would get one extra shield)

[vondrack]

Plans for 1300BC:

1) Angus SE, then S, attacking the camp
My reason to avoid the hut for now is that there is a lot of tech trading ahead of us. We are likely to acquire several techs, especially "cheaper" ones. Bypassing the hut and popping it only after trading for the missing techs, we will make it possible to get a really valuable tech from there (if our awesome luck holds). We are not going to lose a single turn, if we go round the hut...

2) Galleyleo Galleylei N-N-E
As indicated before, I prefer following the northern coast of Bob, passing GoW by (making contact, of course), heading for Estonia (GS/Vox continent). BTW, Zargon - make sure GoW knows we crossed the ocean and tell them they might be able to spot our galley, if they move a unit onto that hill. Also, tell them we were right - what they can see from their mainland is actually a small island mid-way between the two landmasses. It may prompt them to reconsider finishing that galley... I know the chances are slim, but let's try it.

3) Mighty Merc + Settler SE-S, then SE-SE, SE

4) Rover, Jimbo, & Conan SE, then road
Good news is that if we tell Rover & Jimbo to road on the next turn BEFORE moving the Legopolis Settler with his escort, we will save yet another turn, since the road will be there instantly!

5) Jason to road
Jason's last assignment in the Jackson area.

6) new Red Brick Worker (name?) to road

7) switch Panama to Galley
Well, this one is tough. Panama will undoubtedly take upon a wonder very soon... thus, I would not suggest to build any improvements like Barracks (as they would be effectively useless, with Panama on a wonder build). However, our first galley will be sailing around the world for quite some time and we will need another galley to take care of the naval transport between Mystery Isle, Legos Minor, & Legos Major. Considering that our chances of catching up tech-wise seem to be very good, I suggest we build one more galley now, even if it means delaying the wonder completion by as many as 3 turns. (yes, that is a change to O2E)

8) keep Forkmouth building a Warrior
Tibi, the principal problem with a Worker first is that Forkmouth generates only 1 shield/turn at pop 2 (with a fully developed riverbank bonus grassland). As there is one more almost fully developed tile (game forest, 2-2-0) there, we do not actually need to improve another tile for 10 more turns. If we build a military unit first, we will bring Forkmouth to pop 3 and 2 shields per turn. That will allow us to build a worker in 5 turns then. This way, it is 10+5=15 turns. With a worker first, it would be 10+10=20 turns. As we do not really need any more improvements in the Forkmouth inner ring THAT soon, I suggest we build a military unit first (possibly even an archer).

MercG is there basically waiting for the next Legopolis Settler. I intend to send him unescorted (most of the journey will be along a road at that time, with troops close enough all the time), using "his" Merc for MP duties in Jackson.

[Sharpe]

Suggestions for 1300 bc:

1) Angus SE, then S, attacking the camp
Not sure, personally I think we should pop the hut next turn

2) Galleyleo Galleylei N-N-E
No I don't agree at all - sorry - we don't need to go north yet - we don't know how far east GS and Vox are and besides it is very likely they will get our contact from one of the Bob civs.

We need to go south to outline the coast of Bob facing us as well as keeping Galleyleo relatively near us in case of trouble. As for the 2nd proposed galley , he should do the western route that was originally planned for Galleyleo - we can't do that if Galleyleo is far off to the east...

3) Mighty Merc + Settler SE-S, then SE-SE, SE
Agreed

4) Rover, Jimbo, & Conan SE, then road
Agreed

5) Jason to road
Agreed

6) new Red Brick Worker (name?) to road
Agreed - how about Charlie?

7) switch Panama to Galley
Agreed - but not for reason you suggest - we do need to map out the western coast of Lego and this galley would be better suited to do so- have Galleyleo do the shipping and exploring on the east coast.

8) keep Forkmouth building a Warrior
Agreed - we do need to access that game forest as soon as possible (hope we get one more shield from it) -so no worker yet.

9) Switch Farmerville's and Legopolis's production back to optimum food levels again.

Good idea Radek re: the prebuilding the road to Karina so that the settler can get there quicker.

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by Sharpe
2) Galleyleo Galleylei N-N-E
No I don't agree at all - sorry - we don't need to go north yet - we don't know how far east GS and Vox are and besides it is very likely they will get our contact from one of the Bob civs.

We need to go south to outline the coast of Bob facing us as well as keeping Galleyleo relatively near us in case of trouble. As for the 2nd proposed galley , he should do the western route that was originally planned for Galleyleo - we can't do that if Galleyleo is far off to the east...

I agree, a southward path is best. We can contact all the teams in one sweep this way, should several civs hold off on buying our contact.

[ZargonX]

GhengisFarb,

I am bypassing your ambassador because this message is of an urgent nature: our first Lego exploratory galley has arrived on your shores. We have spotted your borders and will be moving closer shortly. You may be able to see the ship already, but we are not sure. We look forward to being able to deal closely with you soon.

ZargonX

Ok, that was the quick message I fired off to GoW. Let's see what develops!

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Sharpe
2) Galleyleo Galleylei N-N-E
No I don't agree at all - sorry - we don't need to go north yet - we don't know how far east GS and Vox are and besides it is very likely they will get our contact from one of the Bob civs.

Sharpe, Kloreep - have a look at the most recent merged minimap first, please. We know very well where GS and Voxes (especially Voxes) are. There is about 20 tiles between our galley and the narrow strait between Bob and Estonia. That's about 7-8 turns, during which we will get a contact with GoW and ND (as ND is now where Luxes used to be). OTOH, if we take the southern route, it will take us this long to get to the RP crossing point only (getting a contact with ND along the way, I think) and then at least 7-10 more turns to get to the Estonia continent.

Taking the southern route is utterly wasteful. Those relatively few turns needed to get to Voxes will help speed up trades with our contact - as GoW will know we are going to make contacts anyway very soon.

Originally posted by Sharpe
We need to go south to outline the coast of Bob facing us as well as keeping Galleyleo relatively near us in case of trouble.

In case of what kind of troubles? I can think of no trouble a galley several (3-4) turns away from our mainland could solve... especially when we have very little military force down in the south... and I can see no pressing need to outline the coast of Bob either - RPers are not naval and do not plan going naval any time soon (and even if they decided to go naval, we know where they would come from), neither is ND, and GoW will came via the route we have taken. So what kind of important information we might reveal at the western coast of Bob?

Originally posted by Sharpe
As for the 2nd proposed galley , he should do the western route that was originally planned for Galleyleo - we can't do that if Galleyleo is far off to the east...

Well, I kinda agree - after getting Angus from Legos Minor to Mystery Island, hopefully popping the hut there just in time, it might be okay to send our second galley westwards. But for the moment, G.G. is and for the foreseeable future will remain unable to take care of transporting units between Legos Minor, Legos Major, and Mystery Island - it is primary and most important assignment is to secure our contacts.

One more thing regarding the exploration route G.G. should take... if GoW (and later RPers, if they acquire our contact) know we are heading full speed towards Estonia, able to get there in less than 10 turns, they will be more likely to trade our contact around than if we stick to the western coast of Bob. If we do choose the southern route, the Bobians may very well want to keep our contact to themselves for some time, knowing we cannot get Vox/GS contact ourselves for quite some time.

I am sure that contacting Estonians shall be VERY high on our priority list. Based on information redstar1 received from DeepO (GS), Estonians are more and more concerned about the growing strength of Bobians (namely RPers and ND). They are apparently ready to offer us extremely advantageous prices on techs we are missing just to prevent Bobians (any of them) from getting money from us (money they could use for war). By contacting Voxes and GS, we shall be able to push the prices down a lot.

Also, Bobians (GoW, in this case) will be well aware of this and may trade our contact around extremely fast, in order to get at least something for it, before we make our own contacts they would not profit from. I would suggest that the very moment we get Vox/GS contacts, we turn G.G. back and head for home. We do not have any urgent need for geographical intelligence on Bob and Estonia, so galleys will do us better service around Legos...

And yet one more reason to sail northwards - we want to know whether GoW really sends a galley out or not. With us contacting them on our own terms, they may eventually decide to build something else than a galley. If we can see no galley passing G.G. by in the opposite direction, we will know GoW scrapped galley for something else. I would certainly not mind finding that out - it would make us less pressed with the exploration of the Mystery Island.

Briefly put: I can see no advantages in going along the western coast of Bob, while I can see several quite important DISadvantages in doing so.

[Sharpe]

Sharpe, Kloreep - have a look at the most recent merged minimap first, please. We know very well where GS and Voxes (especially Voxes) are. There is about 20 tiles between our galley and the narrow strait between Bob and Estonia. That's about 7-8 turns

Of course we know where GS and Voxes are by the minimap Radek, but that only gives us info on how far "by the crow flies" - we don't know the outline of the northern coast of Bob - it may have bays and peninsulas that may add several turns to any journey east especially since we don't know the terrain there.

There is also the risk that GoW may keep our contact to themselves. Our heading east would then mean no contact with ND and no contact with RP. If RP found out that we had avoided contacting them when we had the chance too - that may drive them into an alliance against ND - perhaps even an alliance against us.

There are growing signs of an alliance between ND and RP. That would give great concern not only to GoW and the Estonian civs - that should give us grave concerns.

A possible compromise is to head south until we have contacts with ND and RP and then decide then whether to head back north or continue south (besides GS is much further south than Vox and GS should be our goal to ally with more than Vox).

[vondrack]

Forget everything about the galley routes, things have changed significantly. I am going to start a new thread about a possible deal with GoW that would allow us to head back home.

[vondrack]

OK, the recent deal with GoW changes things a bit, so I am submitting a revised plan for 1300BC now:

1) Angus SE, then S, attacking the camp
More than before I am convinced that we should wait until we get all those missing techs from GoW (should take no more than two turns). The delay is negligible and possible gains well worth it.

2) Galleyleo Galleylei S-S-SW
The fact that we got at least RPers contact means we can head back for the Mystery Island, giving Angus a lift from Legos Minor to Mystery Island without the need to build another galley. More contacts will follow, that I am sure of - exploring anywhere further would be utterly wasteful, not mentioning the fact that we might easily piss another team off if having to pass through their territorial waters..

3) Mighty Merc + Settler SE-S, then SE-SE, SE

4) Rover, Jimbo, & Conan SE, then road
Good news is that if we tell Rover & Jimbo to road on the next turn BEFORE moving the Legopolis Settler with his escort, we will save yet another turn, since the road will be there instantly!

5) Jason to road
Jason's last assignment in the Jackson area.

6) new Red Brick Worker (Charlie?) to road

7) switch Panama to Barracks
Catching up tech-wise so easily, we do no longer need to build The Great Library. O2E is officially dead - our top priority now shall be finishing The Pyramids in Jackson and cranking out a couple of veteran military units that will actually be able to push any invaders back into the sea, should anyone feel like testing how serious we are about preventing anyone to settle our landmass.

8) keep Forkmouth building a Warrior
Tibi, the principal problem with a Worker first is that Forkmouth generates only 1 shield/turn at pop 2 (with a fully developed riverbank bonus grassland). As there is one more almost fully developed tile (game forest, 2-2-0) there, we do not actually need to improve another tile for 10 more turns. If we build a military unit first, we will bring Forkmouth to pop 3 and 2 shields per turn. That will allow us to build a worker in 5 turns then. This way, it is 10+5=15 turns. With a worker first, it would be 10+10=20 turns. As we do not really need any more improvements in the Forkmouth inner ring THAT soon, I suggest we build a military unit first (possibly even an archer).

Additionally, with Panama building Barracks and having Iron just few turns from being connected, building a Warrior is pretty much like building a Swordsman. And we certainly want to have a couple of those around.

9) check all our cities for optimum performance

10) set research to either The Republic at 100% (if we acquire Code of Laws already on this turn) or shut it down completely to 0% (if not)
I am not sure how the tech deal will actually be done, but I suspect that we will have to wait one more turn before actually getting the CoL (GoW now makes an offer, we counter with Philosophy, accept, and then they - on the next turn - accept).

We shall get Literature from GoW on the next turn, so it would be wasteful to invest any more beakers into our own research. Better to save some cash.

[Tiberius]

I agree with all of the moves/plans.
I especially agree with the O2E changes: Pyramids in Jackson, barracks in Panama, then units (swords and mercenaries).
Apropos O2E, what are the plans with Jason after finishing the road near Jackson?

I'm pretty sure that we'll get those techs only the next turn, after GoW acceot the deal, too. So for one turn we must put the science slider to 0.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Apropos O2E, what are the plans with Jason after finishing the road near Jackson?

Considering the fact that we will probably not add any workers to Panama now (or only one of them... not sure, need to redo all my sims), I believe we will be able to send Jason to that Dye tile that is now inside our cultural borders, either roading & clearing or clearing & roading it, to make our people happier a bit...

Later, I believe, he will join Red Bricks' workers in building the road from Legopolis to Red Bricks.

[Sharpe]

Hmm, with our turn having now arrived - one thing we have never discussed is are we going to found embassies this turn and if so, with whom?

We should have contacts with GoW but we may not necessarily have the contact with RP yet (unless GoW proposed it on their turn and RP accepted it on theirs).

I think that this is another "get it out of the way" issue - if we have the gold we should establish the embassies as soon as possible especially with possible trading partners.

Mind you at the moment I don't think we have the gold to afford all 5 embassies especially if we want to retain some gold flexibility...