Next turn plans up to 50AD

[Tiberius]

I figured the 24, only didn't know where it comes from. So it is a map modifier. Thanks for enlightening me

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
I figured the 24, only didn't know where it comes from. So it is a map modifier. Thanks for enlightening me

Oh, that was smart!
Now you are enlightened...

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack

Now you are enlightened...

and soon I'm going to be The Enlightened

[vondrack]

Plans for 1225BC:

1) Angus to move NE, popping the hut
Everybody, keep praying for a technology!

2) upgrade Howard to a Sworsdman

3) Robbie to road
...finally connecting Panama to Legopolis.

4) Galleyleo Galleylei SW-SW-W

5) Jason to move S-S
...then clear jungle (12 turns) and road (2 turns), improving the dye tile in the most effective way. He should be done just in time to help manage unhappiness in Panama at pop 6 (avoiding the need for another MP unit there). By clearing out the jungle, he will also make it possible to send our next Legopolis settler to the Dye Fields site. The Settler should arrive there just about when the cleared dye (2-food) tile would become available.

6) Settler from Legopolis to move S
...then S, S, SW, S-SE-SE, SE-S, SE-SE-SE, E, NE, E, and eventually founding Zargonia Bay.

7) Charlie to mine
This one I was pondering about for quite a while. Red Bricks will not be building another worker after the current one is finished - it will start bulding some sort of a culture generating building to expand its radius to get a couple of more good tiles. At this moment, I'm not 100% sure whether we'll go for a Temple or a Library... perhaps a Library (it's generally more useful, produces more culture and the time to completion difference is 7 turns maximum). To waste not a single turn of 2-shield production, we should have a mined grassland ready from the very first turn of the Library/Temple build. Thus, I suggest we mine the tile Charlie is ATM (and start using it right after the new Red Bricks worker is finished).

8) Rover & Jimbo to road, Conan to guard them

9) Mighty Merc to move NE
...then N and sentry

10) "southern" Settler to move S
Heading for the Karina site

11) keep researching Currency at 100%
As our chances to trade Currency for the Republic with GS later on seem to be high, so let's waste no time and go straight for it.

ADDITIONS:
12) Panama to start building a Horseman placeholder

13) Legopolis to start building a Merc

[Tiberius]

Plans for 1225BC

1. Fingers crossed

2. Hmm, I didn't know we have an iron connected

3. OK

4. OK (where is Galleyleo heading? To explore the west, I hope)

5. OK

6. OK

7. OK, with the observation that I'd go for a temple. The benefits of a library in such a small city are negligible, other than culture, of course, while temples help with happiness and make room for cathedrals (plus culture).

8,9,10,11 OK

On a small note, in all of our southern cities I'd start building temples, to grab more land through cultural expansion. Maybe in some of the cities, those with high growth rate, we can start with a worker, but other than that temples are the way to go, IMHO. (libraries later, after cities grow a bit).

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
7. OK, with the observation that I'd go for a temple. The benefits of a library in such a small city are negligible, other than culture, of course, while temples help with happiness and make room for cathedrals (plus culture).

On a small note, in all of our southern cities I'd start building temples, to grab more land through cultural expansion. Maybe in some of the cities, those with high growth rate, we can start with a worker, but other than that temples are the way to go, IMHO. (libraries later, after cities grow a bit).

The reason for going for a Library in Red Bricks is that it is quite close to our capital (->low corruption), plus in an area where almost every tile is along a river (->lots of commerce, once its pop goes up). Up to pop 5 (with Dyes connected), we will not need to worry about hapiness even under Republic)... while OTOH, a Library will boost the scientific research by 50% (could be like +4/+5 beakers per turn!). I would build a Library, then a Marketplace, and only then a Temple (a Worker or Settler somewhere along the way to keep the pop low enough to avoid happiness problems...

For the southern cities, I agree that temples will probably be better, as they are cheaper/faster to build. However, I would emphasize worker production, as producing workers will be a very effective way of using these highly corrupt cities (with a single 2-food source, any city will be able to spit out a worker in 10 turns - and that worker can start improving the city radius to get the shield output to at least 3 per turn...).

[Tiberius]

You're right that if we let Red Bricks grow to size 5, the benefit would be 5 beakers (on 100% science) or 3 beakers (on 90%).
However, if we don't manage to aquire 3 luxuries until then, the second building should be a temple, exactly to let the city grow and benefit even more from the library.

For the southern cities, it is exactly what I was saying: temples and/or workers, depending on the situation, with troops being deployed from Legopolis, Jackson and Panama (I'd like to see at least 1 merc + 1 sword in every border city, if possible 2 mercs + 1 sword in the east, while in the central cities I'd keep some horsemen, later knights, for rapid deployment).

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
You're right that if we let Red Bricks grow to size 5, the benefit would be 5 beakers (on 100% science) or 3 beakers (on 90%).
However, if we don't manage to aquire 3 luxuries until then, the second building should be a temple, exactly to let the city grow and benefit even more from the library.

Mind you, I was giving just a very rough estimate of the build queue... but the reason for putting a Marketplace before a Temple is that the Marketplace helps pay for the Temple (and not only this one), but not vice-versa. For the core cities, I would build marketplaces before Temples, since they will significantly boost the gold output there, allowing us to use the luxury slider and temples in other cities without falling behind in research. I have played too many SP games where I built lots of units and temples (to grab land), switched to Republic ASAP (since I hate despotism)... only to have to almost shut down my research because of the horrendous unit and structure upkeeps. I am now hesitant to jump to Republic without having few marketplaces in the core cities. Just like a Library brings 4-5 more beakers at pop 5 in Red Bricks, a Marketplace brings 4-5 more gold there (effectively paying for 4-5 Temples throughout the country).

What is important to realize is that this marketplace thing works fine only for core cities - for corrupted cities, the effect of a marketplace is minimal, as most of it is wasted to corruption anyway.

Originally posted by Tiberius
For the southern cities, it is exactly what I was saying: temples and/or workers, depending on the situation, with troops being deployed from Legopolis, Jackson and Panama (I'd like to see at least 1 merc + 1 sword in every border city, if possible 2 mercs + 1 sword in the east, while in the central cities I'd keep some horsemen, later knights, for rapid deployment).

This looks fine. I would start with 1 merc, then add a swordsman or a mounted unit (about 50:50 ratio... every other city a swordsman, every other city a mounted unit), and then add yet another strong defender. But it will take us some time before we get to three units per city anyway...

[Sharpe]

Plans for 1225BC:

1) Angus to move NE, popping the hut
Agreed

2) upgrade Howard to a Sworsdman
Yeah we can't do this now, but we should road the mine asap

3) Robbie to road
Agreed - finally connect Panama to the capital - after Robbie is finished that he should work on roading and mining the iron perhaps

4) Galleyleo Galleylei SW-SW-W
Agreed

5) Jason to move S-S
I disagree - we need to road/mine that grassland south of Legopolis first - we are missing one commerce per turn from it - besides the dye isn't in the physical borders of any of our cities yet and if we need to get it for happiness I would be tempted to road it first despite the inefficiency

6) Settler from Legopolis to move S
Agreed

7) Charlie to mine
If that is the one NW of Farmerville, agreed (I chose the name I should remember I suppose)

8) Rover & Jimbo to road, Conan to guard them
Agreed

9) Mighty Merc to move NE
Hmm, agreed but either there or N of that to sentry

10) "southern" Settler to move S
Agreed

11) keep researching Currency at 100%
Absolutely

12) Start Horseman in Panama, Merc in Legopolis

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by vondrack

Mind you, I was giving just a very rough estimate of the build queue... but the reason for putting a Marketplace before a Temple is that the Marketplace helps pay for the Temple (and not only this one), but not vice-versa. For the core cities, I would build marketplaces before Temples, since they will significantly boost the gold output there, allowing us to use the luxury slider and temples in other cities without falling behind in research.

Just like a Library brings 4-5 more beakers at pop 5 in Red Bricks, a Marketplace brings 4-5 more gold there (effectively paying for 4-5 Temples throughout the country).

Radek, unless we go down to 50% or 60% science, building marketplaces has absolutely no effect whatsoever. I tested several scenarios with Red Bricks and even when the research slider was on 70%, the gain with a marketplace was 1 (one) gold in despotism. Building temples in productive cities takes little time, so why not build them now, let the cities grow and then build marketplaces faster than now. We may gain a few turns.

I have played too many SP games where I built lots of units and temples (to grab land), switched to Republic ASAP (since I hate despotism)... only to have to almost shut down my research because of the horrendous unit and structure upkeeps. I am now hesitant to jump to Republic without having few marketplaces in the core cities.

Now on this one I agree 100%. We should not move to Republic before we build some marketplaces (like you said, in the core, non-corrupted cities). So should we switch to Rep before we had time to build bith temples and marketplaces, then yes, go for the marketplaces. However, we have many turns until we complete the wonder in Jackson, and until then we won't switch.

Apropos, wonder building: we are going to have a problem. I realized that the Palace in Jackson will be ready in 15 turns while the Pyramids in 27. What are we going to do with those 12 turns? If we switch to the wonder, everybody will know about it.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Sharpe
Plans for 1225BC:

3) Robbie to road
Agreed - finally connect Panama to the capital - after Robbie is finished that he should work on roading and mining the iron perhaps

AFAIK, mining that hill will do nothing, as every tile that produces over 2 shields in despotism loses one shield and the outcome will be 2 shields, no matter what. However, we should road it ASAP.

12) Start Horseman in Panama, Merc in Legopolis

I'd build a merc first, for Panama; they're having only that lousy warrior for defence. Next: either a horseman for mobility or another mercenary, for the southern cities.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Apropos, wonder building: we are going to have a problem. I realized that the Palace in Jackson will be ready in 15 turns while the Pyramids in 27. What are we going to do with those 12 turns? If we switch to the wonder, everybody will know about it.

Well, we will have to reveal our little secret eventually... But I would probably try a little cover-up... "revealing" the wonder build earlier then necessary, then switching back to the Palace, then back to the wonder, as if we were using the wonder as a placeholder for a Marketplace... what do you think? Timing it to coincide with our discovery of Currency?

[ZargonX]

BIG NEWS:

We got Construction from the hut!!!!!!!
The cleared jungle tile near Panama is a bonus one.
ND gave us their World Map!!!!!

Now that's some good news! Looks like it's time to reformulate some trades again and other plans again!

[Tiberius]

YAY!

[Tiberius]

Huhh! Must think.... a good deal with GoW ... must think ....

How unfvckingbelievably lucky we are? 6 techs from huts? That's crazy! We should buy some lotto tickets!