Master Builder Thread

[vondrack]

Yep, doing Library instead of a Temple is ok (I made a mistake in my calcs, which made me believe we would finish Temple wasting no shield/food). This schedule also gives us the possibility to keep Legopolis at pop 8 in the end (2 MP units + Dye + Temple), generating 14 shields per turn... if we make full use of this potential, we could have a cathedral there just around the time we'd be switching to Republic - allowing us to operate Legopolis at up to pop 9 and 15-16 shields per turn with no need to spend money on luxuries. An ideal set-up for a Sistine build, I would say.

[Tiberius]

I am more and more convinced that we need more workers. In Northern Legos we have 6 workers improving 7 cities, which wasn't be so bad if the area had less jungle and we didn't prepare to build more cities! We need badly the commerce from low corruption cities like Dye Fields and Kloreepville and from half-corrupted cities, like Sharpeheaven, Benelux or Port Hammer (and even Tarzania).

Right now we don't have a chance to profit from these potentially great cities, because either they are underdeveloped (Legopolis, Forkmouth, Sharpeheaven) or they are surrounded by jungles (Red Bricks, Dye Fields). Some cities we can't even build (we could but in the current situtation it's useless), because the terrain is bad and is not being improved! (Kloreepville, Benelux, Port Hammer, Tarzania).

We needed the soutehrn cities (and still need them) to grab the southern land (good land with great potential) but until the FP will be built, they are close to useless.

We need those northern cities to maintain our good commerce output, to outresearch others, to have gold for maintenance and military, etc.

We need more workers!

[redstar1]

Yes, we need workers to boost population so we can pop-rush!

Seriously, I noticed discussion in the channel about how Jackson is a prime target because of the Pyramids.... why? Its no better a target than anywhere else. Pyramids would be useless without the rest of our Empire.

[Kloreep]

Forkmouth will most likely build workers constantly once the pyramids are built and the wheat is irrigated, since it will then grow every two turns and workers drain pop more efficiently. (10 shields per pop point as opposed to 15 shields per point for settlers.)

As for Jackson: it likely wouldn't be for the Pyramids alone, but if a Bob civ was out to get us, removing granaries from all our cities while taking a nice, coastal landing point near Legopolis would definitely be a good idea.

[ZargonX]

Yes, while the Pyramids might not be that useful for an enemy empire, the city itself occupies a very strategic position. Plus, usefullness doesn't always weigh into the decision; haven't you ever taken a wonder city from the AI even if you didn't really need it? It's all about the glory

[lmtoops]

Also, it's taking away the enemies advantage...but mostly it's the glory.

[Tiberius]

I know this is something like 8 turns away, but what do you think, which one should be our next city? Kloreepville, Tarzania, Port Hammer, Benelux? Something else?

[vondrack]

I would go for Tarzania or Kloreepville, but have no really strong preference... Benelux would also have its advantages. Even Crossing, Oasis, or Castlea would make sense. But most probably Tarzania (due to its proximity to Farmerville), with Kloreepville as close second. By founding Tarzania and stationing Forkman upon the mountain NE of the barb camp, we will create a very lanrge continuous area without FoW -> less barb problems, easier to defend.

[Kloreep]

Agreed, Tarzania next. I'm not sure if Kloreepville should be founded anytime soon; it'll need several workers devoted to it, and we won't get any FoW benefits assuming we can keep a scout in the area. So definitely Tarzania next; after that, I'd say Tiberium (it'll make a good worker factory).

[Tiberius]

But Kloreepville would be a less corrupted city. It'd (almost) complete the level 1 circle around Legopolis (with Castlea remaining to be built). It'd need some serious work, yes, but so was/is Red Bricks and Dye Fields, too. Besides with the help of the Pyramids it shouldn't be a problem to pump out quickly some new workers. Not only we need to work the Kloreepville area, but prepare the Benelux and Port Hammer area, too.

I agree however with Tarzania being next (our eastern coast is more important now).

[Kloreep]

Looking at the Legopolis workers, I think some more jungle can be cleared sooner than I was thinking; while I want Legopolis to be able to operate at size 9 - which means more hills mined and roaded - we'll have a nice size 7 operation under despotism, which is covered by the current mining projects, and Robbie can finish the last two hills. Leopold and Charlie should be able to work on Jungle. The first of two jungles on a path to Kloreepville could be cleared, roaded, and mined a few turns before Kloreepville is founded.

So, I Kloreepville would probably be a good next move; it can be connected ~5 after founding if the turn 103 Legopolis settler is used. The 106 Panama settler can be used for Tiberium or Port Hammer. (Suez/Benelux should wait for sometime after 106, IMO. We'll need to get at least one worker up there before the city would be worthwhile., and Kloreepville and Sharpehaven will take the northeastern workforce's attention for a while.)

[Tiberius]

So the next 5 settlers would build Tarzania, Kloreepville, Port Hammer, Tiberium (I'm still not completely happy with this name, but I don't have better ideas ) and Benelux, more or less in this order.


Edit: Did any of you notice that I was trying to convince Kloreep that Kloreepville should be our next city, while he was opposing this, trying to prove me, Tiberius, that Tiberium is a better idea?

[Kloreep]

Hehe, I was wondering when someone would notice the irony. I still want Tiberium founded ASAP, since it'll be a good worker factory thanks to the Pyramids (so I'm not so sure about founding Port Hammer before it); but I'm now convinced Kloreepville would be a better second city.

[Tiberius]

Well, Port Hammer would be less corrupted, should be relatetively easy to develop (some irrigations and mines), it could build a harbor early on (thus allowing usd to build veretan caravels), and most importantly, we will be able to oversee the sea movements in the area (you never know).

We could use the Panama settler for Port Hammer and a Legopolis or Farmerville settler for Tiberium (think about all the turns lost moving a Panama settler in the south).

[Kloreep]

Err... irrigation? We'd have to irrigate up several tiles and chop the forest. The chop wouldn't be too bad, but I don' think it's a great city site.

Still, you're right about the wasted turns; especially without Engineering, it's a long journey. A settler from Farmerville would be better (it can probably do one or two settlers before becoming a worker factory, to get it up to a higher pop). Port Hammer it is, unless someone objects.