Foreign Affairs Consulate: Vox Controli

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

From Vox:

Hi Ghengis. What gives with CalcII's recent post about Vox having a lot of Immortals? Probably no big deal at this point - as GS will find out next turn what is coming their way - but still - it is a bit out of step with the plan.

And - with your falsifying troop reports - it may reveal your hand as well. But then - once feudalism is had - that sort of becomes a moot point as well.

It just seemed to odd. That's all.

Beta.

[Hot_Enamel]

We will tar and feather CalcII later.
(Most likely 50 lashes as well)

I doubt GS will read anything into Calcs comments.
Tell Beta to calm down...all is well.
The public forum is full of mistruths and blatent lies.
We are doing our part and using official channels to let GS know that their force is only minor.

Also tell him that we suggest he does not give any of his troop movements away...(unless he is lieing)
In the same thread, he announced that troops were 5 tiles away, and had also landed on the east coast.

Also .. Are we getting their maps each turn ?

Regs

[Zero]

The pic of bunch of immortals was available publicly on forum when they landed on our continent.

Define alot, cause 4 ND swordsmen were called "alot".
Beta is being paranoid cause their team has always been cowering in front of GS during their entire existence. I'm kinda annoyed that he didnt PM me about this matter instead.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I sent Aggie's suggestion to Betahound today, here is the recent reply:

Agreed. Good idea. There is a good landing spot which puts you on a road - it is the tile due north of the mountain where the first GS observer was killed - or 3-3-2 from Elipolis.

It is a major road used by us to transport troops south. But our workers can road the tile to the east to facilitate movement.

From there you can use the roads on the eats coast to get south. They are not in our cultural zone. Again - we can use workers to extend the road south. Or - we could give you a ROP agreement and make it even easier. You could use the road which goes down the west coasat to Dissdentville and then out to the plains. The problem there again is that we have a constant flow of troops down that road - and we would be getting in each others way. I will post this in our forum - and someone may come up with a bettr idea - for now - move down the coast and head for the spot I indicated. We have a turn to confirm.

Any thoughts on feudalism? .... Beta.

GhengisFarb wrote on 28-04-2003 20:42:
Aggie has suggested we find a spot north of the front and accumulate a larger force before moving into GS territory. Then we could march south with Pikemen to defend our Horsemen. We could also ferrry units to build up the force.

BetaHound wrote on 28-04-2003 18:29:
Greetings Ghengis.

Bit of a setback last turn - we lost 5 immortals on the plains, in addition to your two horsemen.

I would recommend that future insertions be south of Whirlwind - where you will not be immediately reachable by chariots. We have pushed south on the mountains with a large stack of Immortals - and now stradle the two cities of Tempest and Atashi. We will have probably taken a few more casualties next turn - but when we reached it Tempest was defendedonly by a chariot. There will be stronger defence there next turn.

On the upside - we have 13 immortals heading for upgrades in the next few turns - and we will be reviewing how best to use them. Wew may want them to show up enmasse - now that we almost have a road built which will bring us right to Arashi.

No word yet from RP on their involvement.

Which brings me to the last issue - feudalism. Pikemen would be very useful to us in this attack. As we advance - we are getting hit via the road network before the full force of the Immortal attack factor can be brought to bear. And our best defender is a 2. Can we please close the deal on feudalism this turn. You are already at war with them - I'm not sure how trading feudalsim early can damage the relationship now. If you could consider this - it would be appreciated.

And try and get NeuD off their duff. If they think they can sit this out - well - if GS wins this war - that may be the whole ball game. Not sure if they can see that point or not.

Talk with you soon. My regrets about the horsemen. Regards ... Beta.

[Hot_Enamel]

I am in a PBEM with Beta, and took the opportunity to fire off an email regarding the GS war. Basically, I asked a lot of questions, but made sure he understood that he should not take anything I say as official GoW approved policy.

I have merged my email with his responses

I have read the war chat that was done with RP.Getting RP involved is a must.

Yes, getting RP involved is a must. We had three chats last week with RP - BigFree, NW, and Togas. They are in. We have plans set for their involvement. We can discuss further at a 3-way war council.

Lego is financing your war right ? Or are they willing to commit troops ?
Would lego finance a mass upgrade of our riders if we needed ? This could be done through you with/or without their knowledge.

Lego is committing financial resources - big time. They do not think it makes sense to commit troops - given teh distances involved. There is no current sea link between Lego and the EAST coast of Estonia.

Would lego upgrade riders - not sure. We are doing our deals through a loan program of sort. It may be best if we got them involved in our chats.

If you tried to declare peace, would GS come after you immediately ? I have little doubt, that you will be their first target once their planned interstructure growth is complete...but would they press on with the war ? I think they would prefer to spend the rest of the GA in peaceful infastructure expansion...but you have had discussions with them about this...what is your opinion ? What concessions would you have to give...if any ?

Peace and GS. We have considered this - and trying to talk GS into landing on Bob. But GS seems pretty ticked with us - I smile - and I'm not sure if they would even agree to a peace. I am preety sure they are very confident they can tale us out - and their war production to-date is impressive. When we started this war - and we know because we watched the mil.advisor screen each turn - we had the largest army in the world and GS the smallest. We came close to catching them off-guard - but the observer set-up, and feudalism, and their early GA all have worked against us. I agree that they need to be taken out - if they manage to get all of Estonia - they will be unstoppable. More than just the survival of Vox is at stake here.

And just to be clear - we have had several polls, and we are committed to this war. We are a small team, and technically in last place. Our mission now is to see this war through to compeltion. This is where MP civ is sooooo different than playing against the AI.

As to discussions with GS - yes - we have had one-on-one off line discussions, with some of their ..er.. more moderate folks.They even doubt peace will sell. And as we have such a small civ to start with - we are not about to sell much of it to make peace which may be short as it is. I doubt GS will ever trust us as an ally again in this game.

We currently have Lego, GoW, RP & Vox aligned against GS. Have you spoken to ND at all ? We do not know how much to trust them. Their scouts would be the ultimate pillagers.

We have talked to ND. They say they are on our side. But other than nice words of support - there has been lttle in the way of substantive support. Not even a deal for engineering - which is a bit frustrating. (I hope you have not made a deal with them. Given you are getting it for 30 gold - which still aggravates many Voxians. Particularly as this came on the heels of you giving 200 gold to GS for feudalism. But - given the plan regarding Chivalry - if it works - we understand your rationale for holding it back from Vox and RP.)

btw - our plan is to ask NeuD for horses. We are building a harbor - they have two sources - we could really use one or horsemen and eventually knights.

Would you be willing to provide us with a complete detailed listing of your military ?
How our alliance differs from GS, is that they have a single defensive plan. We do not have a detailed multi-team offensive. To do this, we are going to need military strengths of our alliance allies, and jpgs of the front line. Our failed "invasion" of horsemen shows exactly what having no plan will do.

Yes - we can give you a detailed listing of our Military. It is now somewhere in excess of 40 units - the majority Immortals or warriors on their way for upgrades. (and keep in mind - GS has an army roughly the same size as ours.)

And yes - I agree - detailed plans are required.


Finally, would you be willing to gift us a city with a barracks so we can do an upgrade of horsemen to riders on your continent ?

The city and barracks plan has considerable merit. I will need to discuss it back at Vox - but it can be done. We have one existing city near the front with barracks where we do our upgrades. We will have to come up with adifferent production method - or build a new city - which we can do in short order. I will discuss with the team.

Many of our team are desperate to formulate a plan...but we simply lack military information. How much are you willing to let us know ? jpgs of the front line would be an excellent start.

As to information - we have sent screen saves of the front to RP. We are more than willing to do that with GoW. I agree that detailed information is necessary to the success of this campaign. We will also need to consider RoP agreements, in the present situation for you to get south, or in a city swap situation so we are not held back by each others borders.

And below is just stuffed he has provided.


Also - regarding plans - in the recent 'replayed' turns because of the crash problems, I notiice the two horsemen did not land. The mountain is a great gathering spot - as you can no doubt see from the world map.

In conclusion - we are committed to this war. We cannot win it alone. We need allies - militarily and economically. So please share this with your team.

In the future - we will also need a good channel of communications - to discuss detailed moves and planning. I have that established now with RP - BigFree and Nuclearis Winterius III. Please let me know who will be the GoW contact. You and Panzer32?

Looking forward to hearing back from you and your team. We are glad the game is back on track - and the war resumes. Cheers - all the best.. Beta.

[Master Zen]

PM from Beta

Master Zen - it is very important that we discuss matters on Estonia as soon as possible. Please let me know when and where you or other reps from GoW would be available. Thank-you ... Beta.

Friday would be the best for me. I'm already EXTREMELY strapped for time especially considering the ND chat comes at a very bad time (RL issues).

He should hang out more in the ISDG chat so we can talk more frequently.

[Hot_Enamel]

I guess he wants to talk about this ,,,,,,

[Panzer32]

Friday would be the best for me. I'm already EXTREMELY strapped for time especially considering the ND chat comes at a very bad time (RL issues).

I'm free most of Friday except from around 2-3 and after 6 PM EST.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Im free most Friday as well.

[Hot_Enamel]

Some email tag I had with Beta

Beta...
We get the save after ND.

Here is the Pic.

We cant hold onto the save for too long....

Are you on line at all ?

Hi H_E. Doesn't look good does it. Howver - we think we can take the northern city next turn. I will be around this evening for chats. Say, 6pm edt on. I had a good chat with BigFree of RP last night. They are still committed.

But to be honest - this is going to take more than 4 units from each of you. Unfortunatley, we have wakened the sleeping giant. . ... Beta.

How can RP get their military to you in time...and survive the GS galley guantlet ?

Are they sending you Iron ?

Yes - that is the plan. Rp also has a galley some 5 tiles away.

[Master Zen]

I'll probably be connected at night today, let's see if I can catch Beta... if not, I'll PM him to have a chat tomorrow

[Hot_Enamel]

Just got email from Beta

And hey, are you and MZ around later tonite to talk ptwdg. Serious times at Vox - we need to make some decisions - and where others sit is key. Talk to you soon. .. Beta.

I have asked for a time... but if anyone can catch up with him...go for it

[Master Zen]

I just got an e-mail from him too...

I'm in the chat right now but he's not there. I'm asking him to give us a definite time because I've been busy as of late and have been less in the chat than usual.

Hi MZ. Been trying to chat with GoW for awhile now. Things are somewhat unsettled right now - but not as desperate as some of the public chat may lead you to believe.

We need to discuss if you are still on-side. We have not heard from you in awhile, and there is no sign of any galleys - other than the first of the RP expeditionary forces.

I have confirmed that RP and Lego are still very much on-side. And we have written NeuD asking about horses. We have yet to hear from them.

We would also like to know of the availability of Chivalry - which could be decisive in the current conflict.

As H_E, Panzer32, and yourself have all gotten quite quiet as of late - we are curious as to what is up.

Please contact me. Thanks - and regards - Beta.

[Panzer32]

Chat with Vox at 9 PM EDT tonight

[Panzer32]

From Beta(formerly hound)

June 12 Chat - Backgrounder

I thought it would be useful to distribute some points prior to the chat to save time for discussion.

To start with - here is the peace deal we offered to GS:

- they get south Estonia
- we gift Dissidentville to them-
- we do a public mea culpa - Beta to do that.
- we post a public non-agression pact with GS into the next era. Jon to do this
- we will provide engineering in approx 15 turns.
-we provide our free tech going into the next era.
-we will not attack Inchon
-we are allowed to safely evacuate all our troops from South Estonia
- this includes Harry and his gang trapped on the mountains in the SE. As a show of good will - they will move down to tha plains where they will be easy targets. (We did this and the units were eliminated.)
-and ask if they want to move Inchon - maybe two tiles south. They will still get the prime enhanced grassland tiles - but our cultural borders will not be overlapping.
-we also agreed to forfeit any access to iron, as a commitment to future non-aggression

This was rejected by GS. However - they still put a peace deal back up on the screen, and we sent back the deal unaccepted, with Dissidentville added. That was the same turn they eliminated our Immortals who basically left themselves undefended. They were damaged and would have eventually gone down.

We are told the GS hawks out-number the doves. We are also told that our deception going into this wear was just too good, and they don't feel they could ever trust us. They are willing to give us some limited time to get off of North Estonia, but they do not want us to stay. They want the entire continent.

So - now - GS has landed 7 units in North Estonia. But the good news is that they did not reinforce Inchon. We can take Inchon this turn or next. But we do not have many units in North Estonia. It will be a scramble to defend against the intruders.

What we propose is that:

1. Vox publicly post our peace proposal. This will make it look like we are trying to win over world opinion and that you are all still sitting on the fence.

2. This will hopefully protect the RP galley which is now in amongst the GS galleys to avoid being taken out on the GS move.

3. RP land its two horsemen on North Estonia - at a spot to be determined. This will depend on what GS does with its troops. We hope they will attack Elipolis which will keep them further south. The attackers of Inchon will soon be there.

4. RP land its other two units asap.

5. GoW land its 4 committed units (btw - we will provide RoP's to RP and GoW).

6. At the same time as landing the units - and once RP's galley is safe - GoW, RP, and Lego all declare their support for Vox in messages to GS. I suspect this may be sufficient to make them think twice about this. Also - our GA has just ended so GS' will end shortly as well. This turn or next.

The good side of this plan is that it does not involve major troop commitments. But GS does not need to know that. The downside is if they call the bluff. By then we will have ringed North Estonia to prevent landings - and loaded all our troops into Elipolis.

There may be political fall out for the three of you - but I don't think GS could risk that level of isolation. Even with NeuD not at the table. Where do they stand on this by the way? The strong, silent types.

The hint of a future tech trade embargo would be something to think about. You could all convince them that Vox is like a little child which has learned its lesson and will sit in its corner for the rest of the game.

But the big concern to all of us is if GS does get the entire continent. I think it will be easier standing up to them now than after they have developed all of Estonia.

See you in the chat. .... Beta.