Chat with Togas

[Arrian]

@ SR. It's probably worse now that we've erected the Great Lighthouse, eh?

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Well, I had to jump into the fray... but in general I'd rather just ignore the guy.

/me misses the truly great flamers... HSS, where are you? sniff sniff

[Randolph]

Perhaps I can give a bit of an inside-outsider's perspective, in addition to a few purely personal observations. [I feel quite unsatisfied with how I've said this]

Although Togas' feelings are obviously way out of proportion with the issue, I do think he is addressing a general feeling that does have a certain amount of basis in reality. Nobody likes the idea that teams are "rigged", if one team is amazingly better than the others it does tend to cause animosity, and make the game less fun for the "other teams" (although I don't follow baseball, the NY Yankees might be a good example in pro sports). I'm not saying this is the actual case here, but perhaps it is the perceived case.

When I joined this team I was relatively new at poly, and looking for a non-themed team; I had no idea what this team would turn into (amazingly at first I was worried that a lack of people might mean I'd need to take more responsibility than I would have liked). When the team massed with (apparently) well know and highly talented people I certainly considered asking to join another team, but there wasn't another team that seemed attractive, not to mention the whole "possible spy" thing. The idea that I probably wouldn't have been accepted if I asked to join a few days later certainly still bothers me to a degree.

I think what I'm trying to get at is that this team IS different from the others (with the possible exception of ND), and when speaking in the public forum we should keep this in mind. While playing a game with people of a similar ability trash talking is rarely misinterpreted, but when playing someone of vastly greater ability it can often be perceived differently. A comment will not only be interpreted by what is said, but also by who says it.

[notyoueither]

Excellent points, Randolph.

[notyoueither]

BTW, why did you think that you should look for a different team? This indicates that our 'problem' may not be only outside of the team.

[alva]

I remember that post, something about 'will there will anything left to do for us little guys' right?
-

Indeed you have a couple of valid points, the people on other teams that know GS members from other places but the PTWdemo will AFAIK have no problem with us, but those that know GS only from this game might indeed have a 'problem(s)' with us.

[Randolph]

Originally posted by notyoueither
BTW, why did you think that you should look for a different team? This indicates that our 'problem' may not be only outside of the team.

I certainly never had (or currently have) any bad feelings towards GS or any of its members. I simply felt that I might be able to contribute more to a different team. I'm honestly a very competent player (I've been playing civ since the original, etc), and I feel that I could have made some significant contributions to a different team. It's difficult to "break into" this team due to the highly developed communication skills (in addition to raw talent) that many of our team members developed in the strategy forum. That's an entirely different issue from "the problem"(), and one that I need to learn to simply suck up and be willing to look like a fool (as well as be frustrated) while I learn to play civ as part of a team. So I don't think "the problem" is inside the team (at least not with me), I had a quite different problem that arose from some of the same issues that might be at the root of "Togas' problem".

[asleepathewheel]

Randolph-

Why do you say we wouldn't have let you in had you waited a few days? We have let in most that have knocked on our doors, with I think one or two exceptions, troublemakers and then those who had just registered at poly a few days prior.

Hey, they let me in and I suck at this game.

I too wish that we were perceived differently on the main forum though I understand the feelings among the others. I do think largely those feelings are misplaced, as there are skilled players on all teams. Sure some of us are more vocal than others but they are good players too. Look at Vox. they certainly manipulated us and nearly had us by the balls, had it not been for a couple of mistakes and some luck on our part. Of course, no one really knows that, thank god.

As far as your feelings about this team, I can sympathize. I think there are times when many of us have felt that our voices are not being taken into consideration. Take Theseus just today,and he is one of the big names on our team. I know that Sir Ralph has voiced concerns on other issues and Dominae is mostly silent here these days. I have felt it before.

I know my place here, a few comments here and there, questions and concerns. I figured that going in. My time with this team is drawing to a close I fear, or at least a long period of sporadic participation, so I've been trying to participate more. I think you would find if you just asked questions and made a comment here and there you would feel more comfortable.

I'm not sure I even addressed your concerns, but thats my .02

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Randolph
That's an entirely different issue from "the problem"(), and one that I need to learn to simply suck up and be willing to look like a fool (as well as be frustrated) while I learn to play civ as part of a team.

Try looking at the situation a little differently. If you float an idea that looks good from every angle you can think of and it's accepted, great. If you float an idea and it turns out to have problems you missed, you learn something. So either way, you come out ahead. And so far as how the rest of the team perceives you is concerned, you might be thought of as someone who could benefit from learning a few tricks you haven't picked up on yet, but that's an entirely different thing from being regarded as a fool.

And note, by the way, that folks like Arrian, Theseus, Sir Ralph, and myself are not exactly shy about pointing out flaws in each other's ideas. So if you have flaws in your ideas pointed out sometimes, you're in some pretty good company.

Nathan

[Dominae]

Re: Togas

I believe this is all a ploy to "get into our heads" and make us lose this game! Togas is a master diplomat; he's the FAM of the Apolyton ISDG team! He's putting us on edge, sewing these seeds of mistrust and discontent. Strong the Dark Side is! Let us be mindful of our thoughts...

Ahem.

No, I do not actually believe everything I just wrote, but it would be pretty cool if it were true!


Dominae

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Dominae

No, I do not actually believe everything I just wrote, but it would be pretty cool if it were true!

I don't think it would be cool at all. A game is not worth sowing real-life hard feelings over.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by nbarclay
I don't think it would be cool at all. A game is not worth sowing real-life hard feelings over.

I agree. Then again, I've never seen someone take a game "to the next level" in this way. I guess I would be both impressed and annoyed if it were true.

But, given Togas' attitude in the ISDG forums (where he gains nothing from being a hard-ass), I doubt his chat with nye was an act.

I actually respect his point of view. However, there is such a thing as temperance, which he is not excercising at all. This last bit is what gets me down about this whole mess.


Dominae

[Randolph]

I certainly realize how much being on this team is helping my game, there's no question about that. I'd like to state again that I really wasn't intending to complain, and only brought it up because I thought it might give some insight into the team image, and the "problem with Togas". Thanks for the encouragement though

[Theseus]

Hey, man, ditto... this team has been helping MY game, a lot.

That's what is so cool, and what Togas doesn't get.

[Arrian]

People play civ for different reasons. I play it primarily to win, not to "roleplay," though in SP I do have certain things I will not do that limit my game somewhat (mostly concerning city spacing). Togas, apparently, is someone who wants to "roleplay" primarily AND still win, but due to his opinion of our ability, thinks it is a foregone conclusion that we will win.

Thus, from his perspective, GS's boring, souless, arrogant, etc. approach to the game will defeat his nuanced, stylish, cool approach to the game.

And that, my friends, pisses him off somethin' fierce.

-Arrian