Turn 94, 690 BC

[asleepathewheel]

I would prefer anything over the library. That damn thing is just a bullseye for the owner. RP is already aligning forces against us, we don't need to give them more amunition, especially when it might not net us a single tech.

I said before that I preferred the lighthouse, and i haven't changed that position.

[nbarclay]

EotS is about to become every bit as good a unit factory as Hurricane. Indeed, it alone could just about match production with Vox's entire empire in a couple more turns. Add to that at least three cities that can crank out a WC every two turns and even without Hurricane and the fact that Vox has to either coe to us or attack pikes on a mountain and I think we're in good shape production-wise even without Hurricane. Also note that once we upgrade our swords to medieval infantry (and our spears to pikes), that should take care of the alleged disparity in power that our military advisor sees.

Still, having Hurricane able to pump out units sooner would let us turn the tide sooner and more decisively, presumably leading to smaller overall losses and letting us switch over to peacetime infrastructure sooner. That could likely be worth more to us than Sun Tsu's. Couple that with the potential value of the Great Lighthouse if we need to invade Bob sometime before Magnetism and switching to the Great Lighthouse might make a lot of sense.

Nathan

[notyoueither]

The Lighthouse would be OK. I would prefer the Colussus. That is a lot of gold over the course of the game before flight.

[asleepathewheel]

To my previous anti-library points, I would also add that it would likely alienate some of the civs we are still on good terms with. It would give us less things to deal with them over and less incentive for close ties. I know it sucks to buy techs, but it keeps other civs happy. And we cant really move off our island before it expires.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The Lighthouse would be OK. I would prefer the Colussus. That is a lot of gold over the course of the game before flight.

I would be ok with the colossus as well. I think we need to stop thinking (at least me) in terms of shield loss. Its not 200 shields vs 100 shields lost, its what can you do for me til you expire?

How much income would you think the colossus add through its lifetime?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by nbarclay
EotS is about to become every bit as good a unit factory as Hurricane. Indeed, it alone could just about match production with Vox's entire empire in a couple more turns. Add to that at least three cities that can crank out a WC every two turns and even without Hurricane and the fact that Vox has to either coe to us or attack pikes on a mountain and I think we're in good shape production-wise even without Hurricane. Also note that once we upgrade our swords to medieval infantry (and our spears to pikes), that should take care of the alleged disparity in power that our military advisor sees.

Still, having Hurricane able to pump out units sooner would let us turn the tide sooner and more decisively, presumably leading to smaller overall losses and letting us switch over to peacetime infrastructure sooner. That could likely be worth more to us than Sun Tsu's. Couple that with the potential value of the Great Lighthouse if we need to invade Bob sometime before Magnetism and switching to the Great Lighthouse might make a lot of sense.

Nathan

Nathan. First paragraph. About to become. Key phrase. Is not yet. I worry very much about us not having any more time to build the perfect empire. They have 10 plus Immortals and building more. Those immortals are getting closer, and closer. I do not want this to be a near run thing. The RNG could very well seal our doom.

Second paragraph. Agreed. The GrLH would be good. Oh boy, oh boy. I can not wait to come in from the sea on an unsuspecting RP like the Vikings of old.

[nbarclay]

I agree about the Great [Edit] Library being a bullseye. We're good enough at research that its value would be relatively limited (especially with Education only two techs up the tree), so I think the Great Library's danger outweighs its value. The one thing that makes me not discard the possibility completely is that it would do some nice things for our culture.

Nathan

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


I would be ok with the colossus as well. I think we need to stop thinking (at least me) in terms of shield loss. Its not 200 shields vs 100 shields lost, its what can you do for me til you expire?

How much income would you think the colossus add through its lifetime?

12 per turn til flight. A lot.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Second paragraph. Agreed. The GrLH would be good. Oh boy, oh boy. I can not wait to come in from the sea on an unsuspecting RP like the Vikings of old.

And since Bob will shortly be at war, check the GoW logs, we should pick sides and capture at least one city on Bob.

[nbarclay]

If we build the Great Lighthouse, we still have a realistic shot at the Colossus depending on what other civs do. (Indeed, we could have the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus both for what Sun Tsu's would cost.) We could build the Great Lighthouse, build units until we're sure we've turned the tide in the war, and then switch to the Colossus with plans to change to another wonder if we lose that race. Building the Colossus first and then the Great Lighthouse would be a hundred shields more expensive, and thus a lot less practical.

[notyoueither]

I just checked the map. GrLH gives us very good access to RP that we would not have otherwise.

The question is whether that, and possible hidden islands, are worth the gold given up from the Colossus.

[nbarclay]

Capturing a single city on Bob would be a very, very bad move. If we take territory on Bob at all, we need to take enough (and valuable enough) territory to make the expense of the war and the hard feelings our presence there could cause worthwhile.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by nbarclay
If we build the Great Lighthouse, we still have a realistic shot at the Colossus depending on what other civs do. (Indeed, we could have the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus both for what Sun Tsu's would cost.) We could build the Great Lighthouse, build units until we're sure we've turned the tide in the war, and then switch to the Colossus with plans to change to another wonder if we lose that race. Building the Colossus first and then the Great Lighthouse would be a hundred shields more expensive, and thus a lot less practical.

I think that this provides the flexibilty needed for this war.


Hey, where are all the sun tzu supporters? we need input from others too. Thats one of the problems about this setup, it seems that only three or four people are discussing things at a time, and that group is quite fluid.

[notyoueither]

That's a long way from now. One other thing. The GrLH gives us a large advantage over Vox at sea. Go for it!

[notyoueither]

Who was for Sun Tzu?