We are at war

[nbarclay]

Something else to keep in mind in planning our war economy: When we get Feudalism, we get/have to build medieval infantry instead of swordsmen. That raises interesting questions about whether we want to push ahead with Feudalism ASAP or build up some cash while building swordsmen and then upgrade to medieval infantry to whatever extent we can without compromising our front lines. Enough gold would also let us rush Tempest's aqueduct even after building a barracks, but we could likely get that more easily after multiple Feudalism sales than by waiting.

[Aeson]

RP is out of this War with us at least. They don't have a coastal city yet! ND has one on the other side of BOB from us... best they could do is a Galley or two, no problem. At most we have to face GoW and Vox... GoW with no Iron... I don't think so. I can't see it as a conspiracy... unless the conspiracy is just to try and get Vox to be a speedbump for us.

[nbarclay]

I've already upgraded all three vet warriors and one regular. I'm inclined to think we should upgrade the others too: warriors can stop a landing, but they can't do much about immortals landing farther away and marching down the mountains.

[Arrian]

For now let's just hold back, and force everything off the mountains coming towards Arashi (Spears or Swords fortified on a mountain are 4.5 defense). Switch Bolderberg or Tornado to a Spear. Then use WC's to clean up anything that drops down into the flat. All our WC's should be in Arashi for now.

I agree.

I've already upgraded all three vet warriors and one regular. I'm inclined to think we should upgrade the others too: warriors can stop a landing, but they can't do much about immortals landing farther away

I agree. Vox has galleys, and if they had the brains, could be offloading Immortals down by our core. A warrior can block off a mountain, but cannot be expected to attack and kill an immortal out in the open that threatens a city. WCs will do that pretty well, but at 2 v. 2.2, they will lose/retreat fairly often too. I want the swords as finishers.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

I think we need more WCs more than we need spears. Swordsmen can be used in much the same way as spearmen (albeit a bit more expensively) to block off paths of approach, but with Vox having galleys, we need mobile units that can go to wherever a galley tries to land and deal with the invasion force.

[Arrian]

In truth, we need both. Right now we have 2 cities that can build vet troops, yes? Can we split them between spears & WCs, and then as more cities come online (barracks), assign the new ones to WC (or horsemen if we muster 30 shields) production?

-Arrian

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Aeson
RP is out of this War with us at least. They don't have a coastal city yet! ND has one on the other side of BOB from us... best they could do is a Galley or two, no problem. At most we have to face GoW and Vox... GoW with no Iron... I don't think so. I can't see it as a conspiracy... unless the conspiracy is just to try and get Vox to be a speedbump for us.

RP: Barcelona, which is a little south of Madrid, is a coastal city. However, no harbor there, so they probably haven't built more than two galleys. In fact, it's very possible that they haven't even built a single galley.
Btw, they have surprisingly few cities and land improvements! They must have been building up an army.

GoW: they do have iron. They only contacted us with the question of iron trade because their iron source is close to ND's territory and could be easily compromised, so they want a backup source.
Btw, Hot_Enamel said that he's been pushing to a deal where GoW would fund some of our harbor and give us wine, and our part of the deal would be to provide them with iron if their own source falls to ND's hands. I can see that, or something similar, happening - once we've connected a second source and secured both of our sources, of course.

[nbarclay]

How much use can we really get out of spears? If we plant our spears on the mountains by Arashi, Vox has to come out and play to attack us anywhere. (Hurricane can build additional defenders long before any immortals past the first one or two could reach it on foot.) And if Vox tries to go around the spearmen to hit Arashi, the spearmen can back up into the city while our other forces attack. We'd have to write off Monsoon as expendable if Vox attacks with more units than we can take out on the way there, but it has no real military value at present anyhow and we don't have enough forces to defend it and Arashi both against a concerted Voxian effort.

[Arrian]

Nathan,

We have 2 spears, yes? They can cover the mountains for now, but what if Vox does what they should do when presented by a single line of spears on mountains (which is suck it up and attack, accepting the 4:4.5 odds) and win, either by luck or force of numbers?

In short, I want more than just one thin line up on those mountains. Plus, longer-term, they upgrade to pikes.

I agree that WCs will be the way we win: by hitting their immortals out in the open. That's great. But I want to be damn sure we CAN force them into the open. So I want 4 spears, not 2.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

Looking at the map, the iron GoW spoke of earlier seems to be within ND's borders now, although GoW could get it from them by building a city the right place if they want to. That would satisfy their upgrade needs if they have the cash on hand when they build the city, but whether the city would survive for any length of time is another question entirely. I checked GoW's cities and am not finding iron under any of them.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

We have three spears: one in Monsoon, one in Sandstorm, and one just west of EotS. I suppose building another one wouldn't compromise our ability to have an adequate WC force too badly.

I think massing our spears on the single tile by Arashi is the way to go, though. With a stack of four, Vox would need five immortals before they would get a chance to attack a wounded survivor from a battle we won (assuming we win some battles). If we split them up, even when we win, we leave vulnerable spearmen that are easy pickings for the next immortal who attacks. Plus, that's the only place we can plant spears where Vox can't go around them and still stay on mountains (unless we'd deploy a lot of spears as singletons, which would be suicide for them).

Nathan

[nbarclay]

In the absence of last-minute objections, I'll do the WC attack in a few minutes.

[nbarclay]

I attacked the immortal, and it was a disaster: the WC was killed with no damage at all to the immortal! If Vox can continue with that kind of luck, they may actually win this thing. (On the other hand, the lack of damage means they won't know we attacked.)

At this point, Ouch is probably best off staying fortified (1) to give him a better chance of survival than he'd have running and (2) in the hope that Vox will attack with the veteran immortal on the mountain rather than the regular we just attacked (which I think would get an automatic promotion). Or we could take a really long long shot and have Ouch attack one of the immortals himself.

[Aeson]

Disband Ouch. He's dead, and we don't want to give Vox another chance at an upgrade.

Poor nameless WC...

[Arrian]

Damn RNG. That really sucks.

Disbanding him is probably the way to go. He has almost no hope of victory, and can only serve to promote their regular immortal (or die to their vet).

Damnit! Given this, we need a replacement for that WC. I guess we make due with the 3 spears for now, and build WCs only.

-Arrian