DIPLO: GoW comments

[Aeson]

I don't think it would matter to them other than score wise. I haven't seen their city sizes lately, but they did say they were trading luxuries with RP, so they'd probably need to be size 6-7 to have to worry about using the luxury slider.

[Arrian]

I really relish the idea of dropping Knights and Pikemen on RP out of the blue.

1) They are a logical target for us.
2) The GL allows us to do it with (hopefully) complete surprise, unless they station a galley in just the right spot.
3) Paypack's a beatch, ain't it?

-Arrian

[vulture]

BTW having never played MP, is it possible to see who is at war with who (with embassies) in PBEM? GoW might just be refusing a peace deal because they want to fool someone they have an embassy with into thinking they are at war with us.

[Shiber]

Have we reached a decision regarding the message to GoW?

[zeit]

What we do have is (i think):

1) Mentioning that we don't see the landing as a declaration of an all out-war.

2) Telling them we want peace ASAP, in order to renew trade relations, without further details (or should we?), and also asking that they accept our offer for peace.

3) No mention of any future plans for conquest/raids.

4) Spicing it up with some "i just got back, let's be friends again" or anything of that sort- thus breaking the ice.


One more thing: do we tell them anything about the progress of war? might convince them against supporting Vox, if they recieve a detailed report of our recent victories, or at least a promise of one...

Don't stop the flow, reply

[asleepathewheel]

I would just ask them what their goals are. Point out our suspicioins: the contract on us from vox, or a ruse against ND or to sell feudalism (though they haven't yet, which indicates they intend to have a future relationship with us.)

Ask them if they are going to follow through on the agreement to sell us chivalry for 200.

[Aeson]

I still think we should just ask them if they are still willing to go through with the Chivalry deal, nothing more.

If they won't sell us Chivalry, that probably means they won't give us peace. If they do sell us Chivalry, they have to give us peace first... so that settles the peace question without having to ask it.

[Shiber]

If we give them a war report, let's not say anything about catapults. It's possible that when Vox gets the next turn and realizes that they're missing 5HP on their stack A2, they might not realize that it's all from catapults. They might think that we hit them once, twice, three times at max with catapults and did the rest of the damage with MedInfs, which took off one HP and then died.
If we tell GoW that we are catapulting Vox every turn we can assume that they will notify Vox. If Vox would realize that, they may not be as prone to staying parked on those mountains, whereas if they remain in the dark, they may theorize that they've killed some MedInfs defensively and haven't taken all the injuries from cat attacks, and they'll be more motivated to staying put.

[zeit]

Aeson- you're right, but just saying we want Chivalry might give them second thoughts, making us look opportunistic, while for them there is more at stake than just peace and trade, this could be viewed by their fellow Bobians, especially RP, as taking our side .
They may be encouraged to go ahead with the deal- including peace of course, if we tell them we wish to renew relationships, that we hold no grudges and don't this as a war, sharing some of our secrets is optional and should be discussed, but i believe our message to them has to "sound" peaceful, for it to work better.

[Aeson]

We had a deal with them for Chivalry proposed, all we'd be asking is if they are still considering accepting the deal now. If they aren't, I personally don't want peace with them. Make them sweat that we might very well be coming after them without saying anything about it. Once Vox cities start falling... they may find peace much more valuable.

Right now they'd probably look at peace with us as a gift from them. We can't hit them, and for all they know Vox has us on the ropes.

[nbarclay]

We could ask in terms of, "After several turns of extensive rush buying to address our military emergency, we are approaching a point where we can safely start actively researching again. We would like to know whether you are still interested in selling us Chivalry or whether we need to research it ourselves."

[zeit]

Nathan- that's a nice approach, and would give them a push in the right direction. I have thought of some form of flattery- mentioning that they have not (yet) broke our NDA on Feud. despite the "formal" state of war, and that we would like to know whether or not they intend to honor the rest of the agreement, that will of course require peace agreement to be signed.

We could add that we are now capable of researching the tech ourselves, like Nathan suggested.

What do you think of that? a bit nicer than just asking about our deal, but still conveys the message: we accept the agreements between us to be honored, and we don't see your landing as a declaration of war- correct us if we're wrong.

[nbarclay]

I wouldn't come out and ask if they intend to honor the rest of the deal. I would simply say something like, "We are pleased that the technical state of war resulting from King Donegeal's unfortunate landing has not interfered with your keeping your word with respect to the deal for Feudalism. It is good to know that in spite of the current difficulties, we can continue to view Glory of War as an honorable trading partner." And then go into the inquiry about the Chivalry deal. That seems to me like it carries less risk of insult than it would if we ask whether they intend to keep a commitment they've already been keeping. And it still carries the implicit message that our viewing them as an honorable trading partner hinges on their continuing to honor the agreement.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by zeit
I have thought of some form of flattery- mentioning that they have not (yet) broke our NDA on Feud.

That's an excellent idea! If we flatter them for their honor in business, it will be much harder for GoW to break the NDA later. It'd be as if they're saying: no, you were wrong, we don't deal honorably, and this action comes to prove it.

Originally posted by nbarclay
I wouldn't come out and ask if they intend to honor the rest of the deal.

I agree. We should never ever ask if someone intends to keep a deal. Not only that we may offend them, as Nathan said, but we convey the feeling that it is possible that the other party might not keep the deal - a possibility that we should simply not address at all.
In other words, treat breaking the NDA as a taboo - don't even mention the possibility that they might choose to do this.

[Shiber]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb

Whoah there, buddy. I don't know that I would necessarily consider GoW and GS at war. We had a deal that allowed our ships to travel unmolested and we agreed not to attack GS. A GS member stated in casual conversation that if we ever landed our Horsemen they would kill them.

We landed our Horsemen on an undeveloped hill to get a better view of their interior and they killed them. We never declared war, and while they technicially had to to attack the Horsemen, it was something they said they would do previously so I don't necessarily hold it against them. Whether we are at peace or war is irrelevant as we have no visible trade route.

Should we ask them about Chivalry now, and perhaps tell them that we've acquired maps with a trade route to their civ?