Dimplo Scholia: - Vox Controli - comments

[alva]

they're going to have to get a second Worker to hook up the Iron they probably don't see yet (or have just discovered).

Which will hamper their growth even more.
(rushing is a question of timing, start too early and you can't build/pay. Start too late and, well.....)

Rushing is not as easy as it looks (certainly not with immortals)

[nbarclay]

From BetaHound's latest message, it sounds like they may be about out of usable terrain north of the isthmus. Their worker may be getting set to prepare some tile improvements for the new city they're planning to found soon on the isthmus.

Nathan

[alva]

Didn't read the "breakthrough" message , before posting this.

[Arrian]

Wow, sounds like Estonia was named due to its size. Ok, so they are going to found a city at the isthmus soon, and will likely beat us to the jungle. But I think we should be able to claim what's south of that.

Based on the geography, I'm almost positive that we and Vox will come to blows in the late ancient age. However, until then, I applaud the efforts of our chief economist in his attempts to improve our technological prowess through trade.

-Arrian

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Arrian
Wow, sounds like Estonia was named due to its size. Ok, so they are going to found a city at the isthmus soon, and will likely beat us to the jungle.

If we allow them to claim it. Mind you, that we are in a position, where we can block their land route, and Writing plus Map Making is expensive for one with poor land and without a river. We are definitely in a strong position on this matter. We should use this. May be this fact is the reason, why they consider to give in to our demands concerning the scouts.

[Harovan]

Btw, a deal for the farther future: We could offer them water. As far as I see, they could irrigate till their core land, once we send them the water of the Flood of Tears.

[alva]

And what 'claim' are they making so far?
Up too where their warriors are now?

[Harovan]

They claim the isthmus, and it appears to be rightful theirs. However far they extend this term, I don't know.

[zeit]

If our speculation are correct- and Vox are short of land in general, and fertile land in particular (and no fresh water as well= no irrigation) than it is indeed great news. Positioning EotS as a settler pump might be even better than we though- we will do great not to pity Vox, or think of how this possible turn of events evens out the recent embarrassing situation- regarding their scouts and isthmus blockade.

If we act fast enough, and push on towards the isthmus- and i'm talking about flank speed- while building few cheap defensive units to make a defensive position along the edge of the northern jungle could mean slow death by suffocation for Vox, with little effort from us- we just roll over them once we achieved regional supremcy.

True, the isthmus is theirs, and at least one or two Voxian cities beyond it is a given, but we shouldn't allow them to break through and settle deep in the jungle- definitely not threatening site #12 (according to Nathan's city placement plan). This can be achieved if we head straight for the Isthmus, with our settlers, and settle the fertile south later- although this hurts- IMHO it helps guaranty our future domination of this land.

Meanwhile- an effective buffer, both militarily and diplomaticaly, must be placed, to deter and disrupt Vox's plans of settling around the Isthmus. Perhaps we should push for some agreement of making the southern funnel of the Isthmus a demilitarized Zone, or at least a spot not to be settled untill we agree on the division of the land (our negotiators are to use Vox tactics of delay and deception, to stall and earn us time in which we advance towards the Isthmus with our cities).

[Arrian]

I don't want to write checks we can't cash. Before settling up north, I want our core regions down south settled, so that we have the productive capacity to deal with a potential Voxian attack.

I would like to beat them to the jungle (or rather, a city just north of it, if possible, but we'll see. Priority right now goes to city sites #3, 4 and 7. If they do turn their explorers around, #3 is first, I think we all agreed, right?

Sir Ralph, great creative thinking re: water deal. Our water would have to go a looooooong way, though. That's a lot of effort on our part, and would take quite a bit of time. They had better pay well, and pay at least partially in advance.

-Arrian

[Shiber]

I second most of what Zeit said. I don't think that this problem is very urgent, especially given the fact that our warriors are currently blocking the Isthmus on our side. However, I agree on the matter of tactics - delay works in our favor. We can keep the warriors that are blocking the Isthmus in position and stall our response. That way we can secure the area below the funnel while still having time to build a solid, productive core.

Sir Ralph: excellent idea! They'll pay good for water, I'm sure.

[alva]

They could give us a worker(slave) to do it. He could build some roads for us and irrigation for them.

[Shiber]

Great idea alva.
I'm thinking along these lines: we propose this deal to them in several turns (when they have more workers and are willing to consider giving us slaves). We can ask for two slaves and tell them that they will work alongside one of our workers to speed up the process, and that we will return these workers to them as soon as the aqueduct is completed. They will be interested in this because they want water, and because they want it fast.
We'll have all the advantages in this deal - we'll be able to lie about helping the construction of the aqueduct, and we can use the slaves to build a road through the jungle for our WCs as well.

[Arrian]

I doubt they would give up 2 workers anytime soon, even to get water. It doesn't hurt to ask them "what would you offer us if we brought you water?" and see what they say.

Then we can take it from there. We can see what they say about it. My proposal would be 1 slave who does nothing but irrigate. Any other project (with the exception of helping clear a path through the jungle, which is necessary to continuing the irrigation chain) would be in bad faith. Our own workers can take care of roading.

Another possibility is that, once we get the irrigation near the jungle, we could allow a couple of their workers through the chokepoint to assist in jungle clearing/irrigating. First off, they would work faster. Second, they get to have them back at the end. Third, if the fit hits the shan, we have hostages Fourth, clearing the jungle is most certainly in our best interests militarily.

The tradeoff is, of course, they could see what was going on in that area while their workers are helping out.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, I just had a though: they did say no river, but they could have a lake, no?

-Arrian