The Spartan Academy

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by DeepO
A last observation before the night: how many warriors would Vox have at this moment? We're already seeing 2 of them, and assuming their capital isn't empty, there should at least be one more. Which means 3 warriors, which is, without forest cutting, what you would expect in turn 21. If this is true, their entire force of warriors is heading for us, wouldn't this suggest the contintent we're on is only populated by Vox and ourselves (as none of their warriors is heading another direction)?

That does make such a possibility a lot more likely, although there are other possibilities. For example, they might have started close to someone and already exchanged sufficient information not to feel a need to explore in that direction (especially if their contact is a civ they expect to be peaceful).

The more I think about it, the more I think it's absolutely vital that we find out whether we and Vox are the only ones on the continent or not ASAP. If we are, we probably ought to develop a very close research partnership in order to keep up with the rest of the world. Early conflict would only weaken both of us. (And besides, WCs can upgrade to knights or cavalry. )

Nathan

[FrustratedPoet]

I think you're right Nathan. If it's just us and Vox stuck on a rock in the middle of the ocean we'll have to work together, for a while at least.

[Dominae]

Very astute observation DeepO! There are plenty of scenarios where you could be wrong (popping Warriors from Huts, cutting Forest, bad exploration tactics, etc.), but chances are you're right. Their exploring Warriors were probably funnelled to the chokepoint, revealing something about the local geography. It is therefore imperative that we claim the chokepoint, since we know we'll be denying them land.


Dominae

[alva]

popping Warriors from Huts,

arn't these conscripts...?
(although I do see what you mean, the popped warrior could have gone in a different direction, leaving the reg warrior to follow the other one..)

Am i the only one who thinks, VOX is really hoping there are not alone with us
I'm pretty sure they are very scared...

[nbarclay]

Imposing a unilateral blockade could be a good way to start a fight, especially if the chokepoint is closer to their capital than to ours. This isn't SP where you can do pretty much whatever you want to outside a civ's borders without adversely affecting diplomatic relations. In MP, setting up a blockade in what another civ has reason to regard as its own rightful territory could easily be viewed as an act of military aggression. And whether we want to attack them or work closely with them as research partners, putting them on a higher state of military alert doesn't seem like an ideal move.

If we don't want them past the chokepoint, the logical thing to do would be to negotiate that diplomatically as at least a temporary border that neither side will cross, preferably before they get any farther into our territory than they already are. (If they don't know where our capital is, there may be less static about the chokepoint's being closer to their capital than to ours, assuming my hypothesis that it's closer to them is correct.)

Nathan

[ManicStarSeed]

I am not sure about that,
Those immortals have me a little spooked. If they get a bug up their butt and want to prove a point, our only hope would be to outproduce them and pray.

Now for the observations regarding the quantity of warriors and reletive strength, interesting points. As of now, war would be a 50/50 chance even if the warriors are goodies


Mss

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
I am not sure about that,
Those immortals have me a little spooked. If they get a bug up their butt and want to prove a point, our only hope would be to outproduce them and pray.

I'm definitely worried about what immortals could do in the North, but in the South, immortals would have to come out in the open where WCs could massacre them.

Nathan

[Dominae]

Nathan, since Vox knows nothing about "our" lands to the South, I believe they would view a blockade at the chokepoint a logical thing to do, and not a aggressive act. I surely expect them to send units and a Settler over there ASAP. Clearly we do not want them to come further South, and they do not want us to go further North, so the diplomatic solution should work. However I do not see any reason not to patrol the "borders" as a precaution. Eventually one team is going to want to settle that really juicy strip that is only 3 tiles wide.
Then the fighting will begin.


Dominae

[alva]

Thats why they need to go north again, for now all they know is that we swamped in jungle.
Let them think we are in 'trouble' and start the war on us (eventually), but then they MUSN'T go more south!!!

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Arrian

I wouldn't assume away a warrior -> immortal upgrade strategy. One thing we need to watch as time goes on is Vox's treasury. If they suddenly start to accumulate gold, it's a good bet they are planning on using it to upgrade units. On the other hand, if they're smart, they would do the upgrades 1-2 units at a time over 10 or so turns, to hide their intentions.

But, in MP, we can't see how much gold the other team has, we can't see anything of his in the trade table.

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by alva
Thats why they need to go north again, for now all they know is that we swamped in jungle.
Let them think we are in 'trouble' and start the war on us (eventually), but then they MUSN'T go more south!!!

If they decide to move straight southward with their first sighted warrior, they could take an opportunist attack at EotS in 10 turns.

I'm bit worried about that since we have only one warrior guarding it, and it will mess our build order if we'll have to switch to producing defensive unit all the sudden.

Maybe shadow that warrior with ours, incase it proceeds down south ?

Or send them some sort of diplomatic bluff as suggested what could keep them from coming southwards (dont think it will work - they are not stupid)

[Conqueror]

Originally posted by Shiber
I'd prefer not to expose our units to the Vox's sight. If they suddenly see five warriors emerging from the fog of war (even if we announce that they're only there for exploration purposes) they'll assume that we have several other units at home, panic and start building up on military units. On the other hand, if we don't expose more than two warriors to Vox then they'll take a more relaxed approach and invest in settlers and culture instead of spearmen and archers, which is just what we want.

But, isn't it good, if they start to build extra spearmen in their cities, because it will cripple their early expansion compared to ours.

[alva]

If they decide to move straight southward with their first sighted warrior, they could take an opportunist attack at EotS in 10 turns.

I'm bit worried about that since we have only one warrior guarding it, and it will mess our build order if we'll have to switch to producing defensive unit all the sudden.

Something they don't know of course, I doubt they would do that, unless they play as barbs..

[Theseus]

"We shall defend our land, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills;we shall never surrender."

- Winston Churchill
____________________________________

Vox' attitude and actions have already been the equivalent of a gauntlet thrown at our feet.

I say we respond with the appropriate gesture, which is a slap in their face. What are they thinking... that with Immortals they hold the trump card? Not so, by any means (as I'm proving to my own satisfaction in AU 203).

I propose the following:

* Diplomatic
- Direct communication with Vox: As per Nathan's draft letter.
- Indirect communication with Vox: Someone with a 'poly relationship with one of there team send a PM saying something like "Theseus and Arrian want to go after you HARD... are you CRAZY??!!"
- Second-hand communication: Make inquiries with GoW as to hiring them... make sure Vox finds out.

* Military: We need a surfeit of Warriors, NOW! At least 4 more... take the battle to the hill where Grog now stands... defend there, and notice that there's no way past except on grassland.

* Economic: I know that delaying the post-Granary Settler from EotS is an issue... can someone test or calculate how it differs from the current plan given the increase in pop?

* Research: Screw BW... let's go with Warrior Code and wipe the f-ckers out.

In general, I feel that we can capitalize on our reputation. How people want to play that is yet to be determined.... but I do NOT want to stand for their diplo "delays", their exploration of OUR territory below the isthmus and the blockage thereof, their not sharing contact with other civs, etc.

In case our rep and diplo skills aren't enough, we should prepare for all out war.

[alva]

Nice one Theseus

- Indirect communication with Vox: Someone with a 'poly relationship with one of there team send a PM saying something like "Theseus and Arrian want to go after you HARD... are you CRAZY??!!"

Very Good idea

- Second-hand communication: Make inquiries with GoW as to hiring them...

1. Again , Gow could be the one to find whom VOX has contact with, if nothing else

make sure Vox finds out.

2. sure, but not immediatly, alwayss hold an ace(pressure) back

* Military: We need a surfeit of Warriors, NOW! At least 4 more... take the battle to the hill where Grog now stands... defend there, and notice that there's no way past except on grassland.

Agreed, I more or less said the same thing

* Research: Screw BW... let's go with Warrior Code and wipe the f-ckers out.

100%

In general, I feel that we can capitalize on our reputation.

It woudn't a bad thing to remind the world of this