Tweet
[23:17] {DeepO} well, settling not
[23:17] {DeepO} but gifting perhaps
[23:17] {DeepO} and, in case you could get it to size 3...
[23:17] {DeepO} it makes life a lot easier
[23:17] [11:17pm] {@vondrack} we need to get rid of that city ASAP (messes with our corruption levels and planned builds)
[23:17] [11:17pm] {@vondrack} BUT
[23:17] [11:17pm] {@Aeson} we could then shave another turn off if it's size 3, as the palace jump would be safer
[23:18] [11:18pm] {@vondrack} if we found it on T+5, which I believe will be the case
[23:18] [11:18pm] {@vondrack} then T+5+10, it will be pop 2 again
[23:18] [11:18pm] {@vondrack} that should be ok, right?
[23:18] {DeepO} ergh one sec
[23:18] {DeepO} do you mean T+10
[23:19] {DeepO} or T+15?
[23:19] [11:19pm] {@vondrack} (T+5) to found the city, +10 to grow +1 pop
[23:19] {DeepO} thought so
[23:19] [11:19pm] {@Aeson} we can work with that... to get the palace there will require a bit more work and an extra turn though
[23:19] [11:19pm] {@vondrack} the worker will be transformed in to the spear, that's a must
[23:20] {DeepO} corruption levels: isn't it as far from your core as possible?
[23:20] {DeepO} in which case corruption will be high, but doesn't affect your other cities, no?
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@vondrack} not really... not far enough, heh
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@Aeson} Does Vox have any gold? we only got 4g from Elipolis
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@vondrack} no idea
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@Aeson} they could probably just allow their city to be sacked over and over...
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@Aeson} if you keep the Worker
[23:20] {DeepO} not as long as it is size 2...
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@Aeson} it wouldn't need to be size 3
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@vondrack} yep - losing pop would be a real danger
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@Aeson} or 2
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@vondrack} barbs can kill pop, right?
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@Aeson} and they'd teleport in before they grew to size 2 naturally
[23:21] {DeepO} I know... if it's the only city left, it will be the capital no matter what
[23:21] {DeepO} barbs can kill pop, yes
[23:22] {DeepO} I'm not very sure on the telportation if the capital gets disbanded, though
[23:22] {DeepO} we should test this...
[23:22] {DeepO} and we definately need to chat with Vox on this
[23:22] [11:22pm] {@Aeson} It's not part of the plan anyways
[23:22] {DeepO} I know...
[23:22] {DeepO} just realized that too
[23:23] {DeepO} well... do we need more Lego input here?
[23:23] {DeepO} we definately keep you informed
[23:23] [11:23pm] {@Aeson} anyways, sorry for the tangent... back to business?
[23:23] {DeepO} maybe best
[23:23] [11:23pm] {@vondrack} sure, np
[23:23] {DeepO} point 2. WM.
[23:23] {DeepO} we want to start to disclose our map
[23:23] {DeepO} certainly before someone else is charting our territory, and selling it instead of us
[23:24] {DeepO} we're not doing that well economically, after the war
[23:24] {DeepO} so... would Lego be interested in this?
[23:24] [11:24pm] {@vondrack} hmmm
[23:24] {DeepO} and if so, what would you care to offer us?
[23:24] [11:24pm] {@vondrack} honestly, we may be not hit by a war
[23:25] {DeepO} ? sorry, care to explain?
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} but we are a bit low on cash, too, considering two goldrushes we need to do
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} so, gold is hardly what we would be eager to offer
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} as for techs
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} you will get Theo for the peace
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} and we do not have anything else yet
[23:26] {DeepO} well... let me explain one thing: we want to get little out of each civ
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} Edu has been slowed down by the gov switch a bit
[23:26] {DeepO} if that means we don't face one civ profiting from our WM
[23:26] {DeepO} let's rest this for a moment
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} yeah, I understand... do you have any idea about how big that bit should be in our case?
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} I mean
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} I would be happy to leave that for future
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} and promise
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} we will not try to get your WM
[23:27] {DeepO} well... we have a under limit
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} from someone you trade it to
[23:27] {DeepO} which I will not disclose
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} sure
[23:27] {DeepO} but let's say that 50 gold you certainly cover our expenses
[23:27] {DeepO} *would instead of you
[23:27] {DeepO} the thing is, it is closely connected to point 3
[23:28] {DeepO} if it would be possible to trade
[23:28] {DeepO} and you're interested in extra lux
[23:28] {DeepO} you need our map
[23:28] {DeepO} otherwise you won't see any of our harbor cities for a while
[23:28] {DeepO} I think
[23:28] {DeepO} (not sure on which will get build where, as it changes every few turns)
[23:28] [11:28pm] {@vondrack} let me explain one thing here, please
[23:28] {DeepO} sure
[23:28] [11:28pm] {@vondrack} re: luxuries
[23:29] [11:29pm] {@vondrack} while it is very true that we see this as a big problem in the long term view
[23:29] [11:29pm] {@vondrack} our near future plans were put together on assumption we will have no more than 1 lux
[23:29] {DeepO} okay
[23:29] [11:29pm] {@vondrack} so at this very moment, an extra lux might be nice, but is not a matter of "survival"
[23:30] {DeepO} 2 extra lux should mean something for you... even in the long term
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@vondrack} I will take this 50 gold idea to my team and see
[23:30] {DeepO} buut it might requirie adjusting your plans, I agree
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@Aeson} I think that the Lighthouse doesn't allow trade over sea tiles anyways, so it would be a moot point
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@vondrack} Legos are curious beings, after all...
[23:30] {DeepO} fine, thanks!
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@vondrack}
[23:30] {DeepO} «Aeson» are you sure?
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@Aeson} but Astronomy is getting near
[23:31] [11:31pm] {@Aeson} almost certain
[23:31] {DeepO} damn
[23:31] {DeepO} too bad
[23:31] {DeepO} I thought I saw it happening in one of my games
[23:31] {DeepO} which is why I brought it up
[23:31] [11:31pm] {@vondrack} actually - I believe that we shall have Astronomy within a reasonable timeframe
[23:31] {DeepO} so you're definately going for edu next?
[23:31] [11:31pm] {@vondrack} yes
[23:31] {DeepO} maybe we could split research paths?
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} that would be wise, no doubt
[23:32] {DeepO} currently, we're waiting on what shows up next...
[23:32] {DeepO} but if you have any wishes, we might incorprate it better
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@Aeson} what would your eta on Edu be? we want to get it asap
[23:32] {DeepO} it will also depend on long term plans for Bob, of course
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} considering what I know ATM, Printing Press looks most viable for you, I believe
[23:32] {DeepO} Ah, yes... we may be faster
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} since you can start with it
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} right after getting Theo from us
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@Aeson} no real reason to research PP though, gold would be more useful to be honest
[23:33] {DeepO} thanks, but I'm not sure that is really in our interest...
[23:33] {DeepO} as Aeson said
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} yes, that's something I have no idea about - your gold situation
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} and such
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} I was speaking stricly in terms
[23:33] {DeepO} well... for the moment it's okay, but we have a lot of military to pay for
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} of knowing who is researching or planning to research what
[23:34] [11:34pm] {@vondrack} understood
[23:34] {DeepO} and quite a number of building rushes we would like to, but can't afford
[23:34] {DeepO} yes, but we appreciate your views on this
[23:34] {DeepO} (I mean who is going for what)
[23:34] {DeepO} it could be an idea that we go for edu, simply to be faster...
[23:35] {DeepO} not that we have loads of libraries
[23:35] {DeepO} but they are a priority
[23:35] {DeepO} but a lot depend on your GA, of course
[23:35] {DeepO} are you planning on having one soon
[23:36] {DeepO} either by attacking a Voxian warrior, or building the right wonders?
[23:36] [11:36pm] {@vondrack} no plans ATM, so I would say we do not
[23:36] {DeepO} (If you don't mind me asking)
[23:36] [11:36pm] {@vondrack} if soon is under 20-30 turns
[23:36] {DeepO} well... yes
[23:36] [11:36pm] {@vondrack} this may change, but I somehow doubt it would
[23:36] {DeepO} It was one of the possible reasons you want Vox close by
[23:36] {DeepO} well.. at least one of the reasons we saw
[23:37] [11:37pm] {@vondrack} the sacrificed warrior?
[23:37] {DeepO} yep
[23:37] {DeepO} we wouldn't do it
[23:37] {DeepO} but other teams don't have our honor code
[23:37] {DeepO} (no offense, of course)
[23:37] [11:37pm] {@vondrack} well, yes, there is a clause like that in the treaty draft... but I would feel pretty much like you - it's a bit cheesy
[23:37] {DeepO} indeed...
[23:37] [11:37pm] {@vondrack} clause = to keep a warrior in reserve
[23:38] [11:38pm] {@vondrack} I believe we will try to use a wonder trigger
[23:38] [11:38pm] {@vondrack} but as I said - that was honest - no plans ATM
[23:38] {DeepO} are there definate plans there which you will definately need?
[23:39] [11:39pm] {@vondrack} which wonders, you mean?
[23:39] {DeepO} Oh, and I believe you on the plans... I'm trying to grasp the situation
[23:39] {DeepO} yeah
[23:39] {DeepO} because we got offers in the very beginning of the game from several teams
[23:39] {DeepO} to agree not to build a wonder
[23:39] {DeepO} you were one of those teams, I believe
[23:39] {DeepO} we never agreed to any of them
[23:39] {DeepO} Sistine will be the first...
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@vondrack} no, I do not think so - the Sistine is the first time we are trying to secure a wonder in this way
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@vondrack} partially because knowing how close Pyramids were
[23:40] {DeepO} very
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@Aeson} I'm pretty sure it was RP you are thinking about DeepO
[23:40] {DeepO} about 25 shields, I believe
[23:40] {DeepO} ah, sorry
[23:40] {DeepO} I thought there were more
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@vondrack} yes, RPers did contact us regarding wonders before
[23:41] [11:41pm] {@vondrack} but no deal was ever made
[23:41] {DeepO} but it all happened a long time ago, and it's easy to get confused if you're 2 ambassadors at once
[23:41] [11:41pm] {@vondrack}
[23:41] {DeepO} okay... just to let you know I don't think we'll do it easily again
[23:42] [11:42pm] {@vondrack} understood
[23:42] {DeepO} I mean... it costs us in planning... and extra constraints we don't need
[23:42] {DeepO} it's hard enough as it is
[23:42] [11:42pm] {@vondrack} errr... it helps planning, too, in a way...
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} but I know what you have in mind
[23:43] {DeepO} not if you don't have agreements with everyone
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} yes, that's true
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} needs a lot of diplo stuff to pull such a thing
[23:43] {DeepO} and we kind of established our skills there
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} we are still not done with Sistine, even if you agree to the deal
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} but we keep trying
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} LoL
[23:43] [11:43pm] * Aeson chuckles
[23:44] {DeepO}
[23:44] [11:44pm] {@vondrack} yes
[23:44] {DeepO} well... you have one less competitor for Sistine
[23:44] [11:44pm] {@vondrack} anyway - I do not see us trying to pull another wonder deal like this any time soon again
[23:45] {DeepO} so... to get back on track: you're not really interested in lux before Astronomy
[23:45] {DeepO} so we don't need to test it
[23:45] [11:45pm] {@vondrack} perhaps in a lux for lux trade
[23:45] {DeepO} (and I learned one thing: to follow Aeson's hunches)
[23:45] [11:45pm] {@vondrack} but not in lux for gold
[23:45] {DeepO} ah, but that was our intention
[23:45] {DeepO} you're not the only one who want luxes
[23:45] [11:45pm] {@vondrack} I can imagine that
[23:46] {DeepO} even if we most likely will find enough teams willing to trade on Bob
[23:46] {DeepO} but that in itself is tricky
[23:46] {DeepO} as every lux deal is an implicit NAP
[23:46] [11:46pm] {@vondrack} yeah
[23:46] {DeepO} and we really would prefer to keep to our own for now
[23:46] {DeepO} and not get involved into whatever Bob is cooking up the following 20 turns
[23:47] {DeepO} which we have no idea about... they're all telling us different things
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} though, there is something... have you noticed how much stronger on the powergraph GoW & ND got in the last few turns?
[23:47] {DeepO} yes... and you in score
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} us in score?
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} I believe you maintain the 8-9 point lead
[23:47] {DeepO} one sec, checking
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} all the time
[23:48] {DeepO} well, we may be one turn ahead of you
[23:48] {DeepO} (don't know for usre)
[23:48] {DeepO} but you jumped in score last turn
[23:48] [11:48pm] {@vondrack} aha, yes
[23:48] [11:48pm] {@vondrack} did we?
[23:48] [11:48pm] {@vondrack} good!
[23:48] {DeepO} meaning another city, border increase, or most likely a combination of those
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} border increase, actually
[23:49] {DeepO} as it was a kind of big jump
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} two or three temples
[23:49] {DeepO} thought so... it was large
[23:49] {DeepO} well... with Vox's land going to us, we would have surpassed that easily
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} you can judge from the cultural graph, too - we are growing there, too
[23:49] {DeepO} I'm actually glad we're not alone in becoming more powerful
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} oh, please, do surpass us!
[23:50] {DeepO} sorry, I don't have access to that one
[23:50] [11:50pm] {@vondrack} we are quite happy to be #2
[23:50] {DeepO} nah... thank you
[23:17] {DeepO} but gifting perhaps
[23:17] {DeepO} and, in case you could get it to size 3...
[23:17] {DeepO} it makes life a lot easier
[23:17] [11:17pm] {@vondrack} we need to get rid of that city ASAP (messes with our corruption levels and planned builds)
[23:17] [11:17pm] {@vondrack} BUT
[23:17] [11:17pm] {@Aeson} we could then shave another turn off if it's size 3, as the palace jump would be safer
[23:18] [11:18pm] {@vondrack} if we found it on T+5, which I believe will be the case
[23:18] [11:18pm] {@vondrack} then T+5+10, it will be pop 2 again
[23:18] [11:18pm] {@vondrack} that should be ok, right?
[23:18] {DeepO} ergh one sec
[23:18] {DeepO} do you mean T+10
[23:19] {DeepO} or T+15?
[23:19] [11:19pm] {@vondrack} (T+5) to found the city, +10 to grow +1 pop
[23:19] {DeepO} thought so
[23:19] [11:19pm] {@Aeson} we can work with that... to get the palace there will require a bit more work and an extra turn though
[23:19] [11:19pm] {@vondrack} the worker will be transformed in to the spear, that's a must
[23:20] {DeepO} corruption levels: isn't it as far from your core as possible?
[23:20] {DeepO} in which case corruption will be high, but doesn't affect your other cities, no?
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@vondrack} not really... not far enough, heh
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@Aeson} Does Vox have any gold? we only got 4g from Elipolis
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@vondrack} no idea
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@Aeson} they could probably just allow their city to be sacked over and over...
[23:20] [11:20pm] {@Aeson} if you keep the Worker
[23:20] {DeepO} not as long as it is size 2...
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@Aeson} it wouldn't need to be size 3
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@vondrack} yep - losing pop would be a real danger
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@Aeson} or 2
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@vondrack} barbs can kill pop, right?
[23:21] [11:21pm] {@Aeson} and they'd teleport in before they grew to size 2 naturally
[23:21] {DeepO} I know... if it's the only city left, it will be the capital no matter what
[23:21] {DeepO} barbs can kill pop, yes
[23:22] {DeepO} I'm not very sure on the telportation if the capital gets disbanded, though
[23:22] {DeepO} we should test this...
[23:22] {DeepO} and we definately need to chat with Vox on this
[23:22] [11:22pm] {@Aeson} It's not part of the plan anyways
[23:22] {DeepO} I know...
[23:22] {DeepO} just realized that too
[23:23] {DeepO} well... do we need more Lego input here?
[23:23] {DeepO} we definately keep you informed
[23:23] [11:23pm] {@Aeson} anyways, sorry for the tangent... back to business?
[23:23] {DeepO} maybe best
[23:23] [11:23pm] {@vondrack} sure, np
[23:23] {DeepO} point 2. WM.
[23:23] {DeepO} we want to start to disclose our map
[23:23] {DeepO} certainly before someone else is charting our territory, and selling it instead of us
[23:24] {DeepO} we're not doing that well economically, after the war
[23:24] {DeepO} so... would Lego be interested in this?
[23:24] [11:24pm] {@vondrack} hmmm
[23:24] {DeepO} and if so, what would you care to offer us?
[23:24] [11:24pm] {@vondrack} honestly, we may be not hit by a war
[23:25] {DeepO} ? sorry, care to explain?
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} but we are a bit low on cash, too, considering two goldrushes we need to do
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} so, gold is hardly what we would be eager to offer
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} as for techs
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} you will get Theo for the peace
[23:25] [11:25pm] {@vondrack} and we do not have anything else yet
[23:26] {DeepO} well... let me explain one thing: we want to get little out of each civ
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} Edu has been slowed down by the gov switch a bit
[23:26] {DeepO} if that means we don't face one civ profiting from our WM
[23:26] {DeepO} let's rest this for a moment
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} yeah, I understand... do you have any idea about how big that bit should be in our case?
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} I mean
[23:26] [11:26pm] {@vondrack} I would be happy to leave that for future
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} and promise
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} we will not try to get your WM
[23:27] {DeepO} well... we have a under limit
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} from someone you trade it to
[23:27] {DeepO} which I will not disclose
[23:27] [11:27pm] {@vondrack} sure
[23:27] {DeepO} but let's say that 50 gold you certainly cover our expenses
[23:27] {DeepO} *would instead of you
[23:27] {DeepO} the thing is, it is closely connected to point 3
[23:28] {DeepO} if it would be possible to trade
[23:28] {DeepO} and you're interested in extra lux
[23:28] {DeepO} you need our map
[23:28] {DeepO} otherwise you won't see any of our harbor cities for a while
[23:28] {DeepO} I think
[23:28] {DeepO} (not sure on which will get build where, as it changes every few turns)
[23:28] [11:28pm] {@vondrack} let me explain one thing here, please
[23:28] {DeepO} sure
[23:28] [11:28pm] {@vondrack} re: luxuries
[23:29] [11:29pm] {@vondrack} while it is very true that we see this as a big problem in the long term view
[23:29] [11:29pm] {@vondrack} our near future plans were put together on assumption we will have no more than 1 lux
[23:29] {DeepO} okay
[23:29] [11:29pm] {@vondrack} so at this very moment, an extra lux might be nice, but is not a matter of "survival"
[23:30] {DeepO} 2 extra lux should mean something for you... even in the long term
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@vondrack} I will take this 50 gold idea to my team and see
[23:30] {DeepO} buut it might requirie adjusting your plans, I agree
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@Aeson} I think that the Lighthouse doesn't allow trade over sea tiles anyways, so it would be a moot point
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@vondrack} Legos are curious beings, after all...
[23:30] {DeepO} fine, thanks!
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@vondrack}
[23:30] {DeepO} «Aeson» are you sure?
[23:30] [11:30pm] {@Aeson} but Astronomy is getting near
[23:31] [11:31pm] {@Aeson} almost certain
[23:31] {DeepO} damn
[23:31] {DeepO} too bad
[23:31] {DeepO} I thought I saw it happening in one of my games
[23:31] {DeepO} which is why I brought it up
[23:31] [11:31pm] {@vondrack} actually - I believe that we shall have Astronomy within a reasonable timeframe
[23:31] {DeepO} so you're definately going for edu next?
[23:31] [11:31pm] {@vondrack} yes
[23:31] {DeepO} maybe we could split research paths?
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} that would be wise, no doubt
[23:32] {DeepO} currently, we're waiting on what shows up next...
[23:32] {DeepO} but if you have any wishes, we might incorprate it better
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@Aeson} what would your eta on Edu be? we want to get it asap
[23:32] {DeepO} it will also depend on long term plans for Bob, of course
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} considering what I know ATM, Printing Press looks most viable for you, I believe
[23:32] {DeepO} Ah, yes... we may be faster
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} since you can start with it
[23:32] [11:32pm] {@vondrack} right after getting Theo from us
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@Aeson} no real reason to research PP though, gold would be more useful to be honest
[23:33] {DeepO} thanks, but I'm not sure that is really in our interest...
[23:33] {DeepO} as Aeson said
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} yes, that's something I have no idea about - your gold situation
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} and such
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} I was speaking stricly in terms
[23:33] {DeepO} well... for the moment it's okay, but we have a lot of military to pay for
[23:33] [11:33pm] {@vondrack} of knowing who is researching or planning to research what
[23:34] [11:34pm] {@vondrack} understood
[23:34] {DeepO} and quite a number of building rushes we would like to, but can't afford
[23:34] {DeepO} yes, but we appreciate your views on this
[23:34] {DeepO} (I mean who is going for what)
[23:34] {DeepO} it could be an idea that we go for edu, simply to be faster...
[23:35] {DeepO} not that we have loads of libraries
[23:35] {DeepO} but they are a priority
[23:35] {DeepO} but a lot depend on your GA, of course
[23:35] {DeepO} are you planning on having one soon
[23:36] {DeepO} either by attacking a Voxian warrior, or building the right wonders?
[23:36] [11:36pm] {@vondrack} no plans ATM, so I would say we do not
[23:36] {DeepO} (If you don't mind me asking)
[23:36] [11:36pm] {@vondrack} if soon is under 20-30 turns
[23:36] {DeepO} well... yes
[23:36] [11:36pm] {@vondrack} this may change, but I somehow doubt it would
[23:36] {DeepO} It was one of the possible reasons you want Vox close by
[23:36] {DeepO} well.. at least one of the reasons we saw
[23:37] [11:37pm] {@vondrack} the sacrificed warrior?
[23:37] {DeepO} yep
[23:37] {DeepO} we wouldn't do it
[23:37] {DeepO} but other teams don't have our honor code
[23:37] {DeepO} (no offense, of course)
[23:37] [11:37pm] {@vondrack} well, yes, there is a clause like that in the treaty draft... but I would feel pretty much like you - it's a bit cheesy
[23:37] {DeepO} indeed...
[23:37] [11:37pm] {@vondrack} clause = to keep a warrior in reserve
[23:38] [11:38pm] {@vondrack} I believe we will try to use a wonder trigger
[23:38] [11:38pm] {@vondrack} but as I said - that was honest - no plans ATM
[23:38] {DeepO} are there definate plans there which you will definately need?
[23:39] [11:39pm] {@vondrack} which wonders, you mean?
[23:39] {DeepO} Oh, and I believe you on the plans... I'm trying to grasp the situation
[23:39] {DeepO} yeah
[23:39] {DeepO} because we got offers in the very beginning of the game from several teams
[23:39] {DeepO} to agree not to build a wonder
[23:39] {DeepO} you were one of those teams, I believe
[23:39] {DeepO} we never agreed to any of them
[23:39] {DeepO} Sistine will be the first...
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@vondrack} no, I do not think so - the Sistine is the first time we are trying to secure a wonder in this way
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@vondrack} partially because knowing how close Pyramids were
[23:40] {DeepO} very
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@Aeson} I'm pretty sure it was RP you are thinking about DeepO
[23:40] {DeepO} about 25 shields, I believe
[23:40] {DeepO} ah, sorry
[23:40] {DeepO} I thought there were more
[23:40] [11:40pm] {@vondrack} yes, RPers did contact us regarding wonders before
[23:41] [11:41pm] {@vondrack} but no deal was ever made
[23:41] {DeepO} but it all happened a long time ago, and it's easy to get confused if you're 2 ambassadors at once
[23:41] [11:41pm] {@vondrack}
[23:41] {DeepO} okay... just to let you know I don't think we'll do it easily again
[23:42] [11:42pm] {@vondrack} understood
[23:42] {DeepO} I mean... it costs us in planning... and extra constraints we don't need
[23:42] {DeepO} it's hard enough as it is
[23:42] [11:42pm] {@vondrack} errr... it helps planning, too, in a way...
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} but I know what you have in mind
[23:43] {DeepO} not if you don't have agreements with everyone
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} yes, that's true
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} needs a lot of diplo stuff to pull such a thing
[23:43] {DeepO} and we kind of established our skills there
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} we are still not done with Sistine, even if you agree to the deal
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} but we keep trying
[23:43] [11:43pm] {@vondrack} LoL
[23:43] [11:43pm] * Aeson chuckles
[23:44] {DeepO}
[23:44] [11:44pm] {@vondrack} yes
[23:44] {DeepO} well... you have one less competitor for Sistine
[23:44] [11:44pm] {@vondrack} anyway - I do not see us trying to pull another wonder deal like this any time soon again
[23:45] {DeepO} so... to get back on track: you're not really interested in lux before Astronomy
[23:45] {DeepO} so we don't need to test it
[23:45] [11:45pm] {@vondrack} perhaps in a lux for lux trade
[23:45] {DeepO} (and I learned one thing: to follow Aeson's hunches)
[23:45] [11:45pm] {@vondrack} but not in lux for gold
[23:45] {DeepO} ah, but that was our intention
[23:45] {DeepO} you're not the only one who want luxes
[23:45] [11:45pm] {@vondrack} I can imagine that
[23:46] {DeepO} even if we most likely will find enough teams willing to trade on Bob
[23:46] {DeepO} but that in itself is tricky
[23:46] {DeepO} as every lux deal is an implicit NAP
[23:46] [11:46pm] {@vondrack} yeah
[23:46] {DeepO} and we really would prefer to keep to our own for now
[23:46] {DeepO} and not get involved into whatever Bob is cooking up the following 20 turns
[23:47] {DeepO} which we have no idea about... they're all telling us different things
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} though, there is something... have you noticed how much stronger on the powergraph GoW & ND got in the last few turns?
[23:47] {DeepO} yes... and you in score
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} us in score?
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} I believe you maintain the 8-9 point lead
[23:47] {DeepO} one sec, checking
[23:47] [11:47pm] {@vondrack} all the time
[23:48] {DeepO} well, we may be one turn ahead of you
[23:48] {DeepO} (don't know for usre)
[23:48] {DeepO} but you jumped in score last turn
[23:48] [11:48pm] {@vondrack} aha, yes
[23:48] [11:48pm] {@vondrack} did we?
[23:48] [11:48pm] {@vondrack} good!
[23:48] {DeepO} meaning another city, border increase, or most likely a combination of those
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} border increase, actually
[23:49] {DeepO} as it was a kind of big jump
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} two or three temples
[23:49] {DeepO} thought so... it was large
[23:49] {DeepO} well... with Vox's land going to us, we would have surpassed that easily
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} you can judge from the cultural graph, too - we are growing there, too
[23:49] {DeepO} I'm actually glad we're not alone in becoming more powerful
[23:49] [11:49pm] {@vondrack} oh, please, do surpass us!
[23:50] {DeepO} sorry, I don't have access to that one
[23:50] [11:50pm] {@vondrack} we are quite happy to be #2
[23:50] {DeepO} nah... thank you
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