Turn 244 : 1270 AD Part II

[DeepO]

Correction from ND on that deal, we'll get an extra 100 gold next turn.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Reply from MZ to the battle report.

[vmxa1]

The first time I read it, I was confused and thought they had not taken the fort. The second, time it looks like they have taken and that is what the captured units are, whew.

So has anyone heard from Vox? They should have contacted us, if they have read the battle report. They have to see that they will have no defender left soon and be at risk.

I would think they would want to try to stress their neutrality and ask for assurances.

[vmxa1]

"Nobody says you are forced to completely railroad your territory, and use their ability to leave all your cities undefended. Think about that, before pointing any fingers at us for using settler blitzing, please."

DeepO, I think you wish you could take this one back now.

[Dominae]

From MZ's recent communication:

The last concern I have is Vox. We should make some sort of declaration that any sheltering of Lego inside Vox will be considered a declaration of war. In exchange we can perhaps offer Vox a few of the northern cities as compensation for their "collaboration". If not we can always just kill them afterward too (it's not like we have to act diplomatic to anyone by now

An attempt to steer us away from a Diplo. victory?

[asleepathewheel]

a bit premature, I'd think for such declarations. After next turn, maybe, if Abiline's garrison has been dispatched. But until then this wars not over.

It does seem like Zen might be playing us to be the bad guys against vox...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by vmxa1
"Nobody says you are forced to completely railroad your territory, and use their ability to leave all your cities undefended. Think about that, before pointing any fingers at us for using settler blitzing, please."

DeepO, I think you wish you could take this one back now.

There's only so much crap and whining you can take. Frankly I'm suprised no one else has spouted off about them. They screwed up, royally, and its cost them their shot at winning this game. What we did was available to any team. Hell, we are the team most likely snuffed out by such a move, we've contemplated the one-turn defeat here many moons ago.

All this talk of settler tricks and game mechanics is very insulting, IMHO to our team (speaking as someone who was absent during the recent turns). In my book we did nothing wrong. If lego would rather this be a game of pure numbers and not strategy, then maybe this game is not for them.

That said, I understand what they are feeling, at least the lesser members of lego, I don't understand what VonD feels.

[vmxa1]

I do agree DeepO was within his rights to say it and it is not even wrong, only it negates all the effort that preceeded it to be non confrontational.

It also does not gain us much. Now the gloves could come off and the flames begin, I thought that is what we were trying to avoid.

From my end, I have thick skin, so let them have their fun. I will not be flaming back.

[Cort Haus]

It's OK, I don't think we'll see any escalation from the Legonians. Ultimately they know their frustration is with the game design - or this loophole in it, than us.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Dominae
From MZ's recent communication:

The last concern I have is Vox. We should make some sort of declaration that any sheltering of Lego inside Vox will be considered a declaration of war. In exchange we can perhaps offer Vox a few of the northern cities as compensation for their "collaboration". If not we can always just kill them afterward too (it's not like we have to act diplomatic to anyone by now

An attempt to steer us away from a Diplo. victory?

It could well be. We can't threaten Vox one minute the sidle in grinning and offering friendship the next. Maybe all the more reason to get some positive signals in first before addressing the thorny issue of protection of Lego.

I think MZ's also a bit worried about his troop losses at the moment, even in the event of victory. He might be thinking he's better off allowing us to take some punishment too. We all knew someone had to face the brunt of Lego's reply, and that it was most likely them. He hasn't complained about it, but might be tempted to let us spend some units. If they get through Stanwix and put Lego down to 3 cities Lego might just pull the plug and leave our armies intact, while GoW's are decimated. If it was us in that position we'd be worried about it.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by vmxa1
"Nobody says you are forced to completely railroad your territory, and use their ability to leave all your cities undefended. Think about that, before pointing any fingers at us for using settler blitzing, please."

DeepO, I think you wish you could take this one back now.

I do. It didn't came out the way it was intended, and I'm not sure I can repair the damage. A pity, in otherwise agreeable communications. Even last night, I posted here that it was not time yet to discuss tactics, and still I got seduced into starting a discussion on this, leading to a very unfortunate outcry. I didn't want this.

I also just read where their problem is: they think those arties come from our transports. That is a mistake, but right now, I'm not going to point it out. They knew we were chaining units, as they have found our last chainer (a sub right next to a transport... that should be quite obvious). Or at least, they should have known that. They know we were still building marines after our fleet had left harbor. They know we used more settlers this turn, than we had after the massacre near Sando. All these things, and it doesn't occur to someone we have an active chaining line, able to send 8 arties over?

I'm sure as hell not going to bring this up right now. If they don't suspect we have a chain, after all the talk about chaining, they are still making a mistake. If so, they might not think that we're still using it... and we can use it next turn as well. No need to point out we've got constant reinforcements....

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Note - GoW are doing Fission now - in anticipation of trading it for our Miniaturisation. They're probably not far off the blocks yet, as they took gold last turn.

The UN is a very un-GoW like Wonder, but MZ does have a thing about diplomacy, and at the very least he can figure that GS have two votes in the bag if we build it. We might find his prebuild is ready the turn they get the tech. Maybe a bit of spying would help.

[Cort Haus]

A note on prebuilds, I think MZ really hoped he was going to get a Science Wonder back in the late middle-ages, but he was nowhere near us when we snapped up both. If he hasn't sharpened up on that we might get a break there.

[Cort Haus]

Chaining? OMG - no let's not talk about that. The vote was clear enough, I thought.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
It's OK, I don't think we'll see any escalation from the Legonians. Ultimately they know their frustration is with the game design - or this loophole in it, than us.

The only good thing that might come from this (as I'm confessing guilt here, I planned this another way but might have posted too quickly), is that Lego will also understand that we get emotional when it comes to calling us abusers of game mechanics. I do not want to be known like someone who only exploits shady game algorithms to win. I can get just as emotional about that, as Lego is about losing their whole empire. I can understand their anger, and it didn't really feel as a personal (to me or to the team) insult... which is why I regret so much that what I posted seemed like I lashed out. I just wanted to point out, that both parties 'abused' game mechanics. Without settlers, no invasion is possible into a RRed territory, or you need to have 4 or 5 times the units the defender has. In total, we brought nearly 3 times the units, yet Lego 'abuses' game mechanics to keep all, and every single city safe. I'm sorry, but that is just as cheesy, or exploitative as using settlers.

The stupid thing is: we could without any problems have brought 8 cavs, by getting the tech and saltpeter from GoW, switching builds, and chaining cavs to Legoland. (okay, in reality that would not have given us arties, but you get my point) Without any settler blitzing, Lego would have lost 9 cities (they now lost 10, so we had to let go of e.g. Forkmouth or Sando). They really are whining about anything, to find something to blame for their tremendous loss. We didn't need settlers.

But hey, let them whine for a moment, I can understand their disappointment. I do stay with my personal feeling that they have gambled, with possible large gains, but at high risks too. They didn't understand the hint I gave about token defenders (and I'm not going to point it out right now), but in case you see an invasion force coming with at least twice the amount of attackers as you've got defenders (and properly defended as well), you'd think that you do a quick calculation, and draft some infs. And keep them to keep your inner cities safe.

Oh well, this will undoubtedly be continued. I hope I did not made permanent damage because of one ill-chosen comment.

DeepO