Turn 244 : 1270 AD Part II

[DeepO]

Besides, I think MZ did see the light regarding acknowledging what we did for them. His message is still very "Hey, we lost most, we deserve most", but the GoW news thing he last posted has a very different thing. In that, he talks about GoW's casualties (and he has every right for that), but he also talks about our sacrifices and moves which enabled GoW to conquer the city. That's a very dramatic change over the course of 12 hours.

I'm not sure if he is just honeying our mouths (wipe our sleaves would be the Dutch translation, I'm not sure on the English version ), but his diplomatic side has felt we are not exactly pleased by his claim to victory, when we did the real work. So let's not push that too far. We do not need to be hailed as the big conquerers... if he would see our point in this latest discussion, we get enough praise and recognition.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

Seems good to me DeepO.

I have not said anything about the 48 hr bit, as I feel it is not my place. You are doing the hard part, the turn play and it should be your call.

[vmxa1]

I think the phrase in the US is "buttering us up". In means to make us feel good, usually falsely.

The honey part, I guess would be "you get more flies with honey".
To mean that being sweet will attract more, than being stern. More likely to have people do what you want by a reward, rather than fear.

It is hard to convay the full meaning to other teams, without the interaction of converstaion. You toss in the subtleness of language and it is a wonder we manage at all.

[DeepO]

For me it would really help to take a break. I want (and should) be present in all important things here, which means that as long as this forum is active, I'm active. So basically the only way of having a break, is to have a collective holiday.

I can imagine more people feel the same, I've got the luxury of being able to spend all my time, not just my free time. So this has to weigh on a lot more people, you inclusive.

But CH is right, we can't take a break until GoW sends its turn onwards. this has to be dealt with first.

and of course, I will stay accessible, it's not that I'm going to cut my internet connection, and put my pc in a locked box for 2 days

DeepO

[vmxa1]

Yeah the only way to stop the action is for us to have the save.

[vmxa1]

BTW how do manage to be represented as not being online, but manage to post so quickly? Are you logging on and off all the time?

I look at your bulb and it is not yellow. I post and see you have posted as well?

[DeepO]

buttering us up... that was what I was looking for, yes.

As to language barriers: I'm used to them. It creates some awkward moments from time to time, but with a little patience on both sides it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Besides, I've got the tendency of talking a lot (some might call it babbling), in all those things I say, at least once it should be correct

DeepO

[DeepO]

vmxa, it is a option in your control panel. It doesn't work everywhere, though, in the member list (e.g. of this forum), PM list, and a couple of more obscure places, you can still have my actual status. A bit of a poly bug that it is not done everywhere.

I just found out that if people see you online, they tend to expect you to answer as well... even if that bulb stays lit half an hour after your last page request.

Besides, there are others who do this, Trip for one (I think)

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

suggested nuances :

line 3 : How about "far from ideal" for "quite unnacceptable"

3rd Para from end : "No thanks, not worth it" could be omitted without losing any meaning. The previous sentance ("No gain ... high cost ... public outcry) strongly implies it.

Final Para: "However, think of your ally, please" could also be omitted at this stage. In fact there is more which could be held back for use in case he persists. It might be worthwhile avoiding the word 'selfish' this early on, in case of misunderstanding.

How about :

I can understand that from your side, it would pay off to isolate most units, and declare war on us. For GS, there is no gain in this, only heavy costs. We hope our attack on Stanwick, and the treasure and artillery your subsequent breakout harvested is evidence of GS commitment to the harmony or our alliance. We would therefore like to decline this proposal.

[Cort Haus]

Vox message sent.

[DeepO]

the first few things are certainly an improvement. The last paragraph... I don't know... it sounds awfully polite all of a sudden. I wanted to keep the tone light and friendly.

waht about

I can understand that from your side, it would pay off to isolate most units, declaring war on us. However for us, there is no gain, only heavy costs. We were primarily concerned with you when we attacked Stanwix (to be correct: we knew it would be very important to our alliance, even if in the end it would gain you 29 arties, and a lot more gold than we would gain), so it is our hope you also see our point here. We are not helped by this manoeuvre, on the contrary even, it costs us a lot.

I don't want to say we decline a proposal, it's not really a proposal as such. GoW can declare war on us without our approval, so we can only let them know we don't like it.

Plus, I'd like to mention that we know they gained more than us, while it would be perfectly possible to let them rot in their fort, and take 8 or 10 cities next turn ourselves before GoW could react with their troops still on boats. We do not ask for half of all the gold they received, while I think that that would be perfectly acceptable, and if we didn't need GoW as a friend we wouldn't hesitate to ask for compensation.

I'm not prepared to say directly to them: hey, we didn't need you anymore, so this was a gift. No you give something to us as well. But I don't mind if a hint of that is present.

Meanwhile, I also want to imply that they still need us. It's too easy to just not give us rubber, but alone they can't handle Lego atm. The next casualties are going to fall on our side.

DeepO

[DeepO]

but perhaps we don't need to be so explicit in mentioning what exactly they gained... the phrase of "your subsequent gains" is probably better.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Yeah, I spent 20 minutes trying to make it polite! I thought the original a little harsh but your revision looks fine to me!

[DeepO]

polite may not be the correct term, but at least it's formal. This sounds like me, writing a letter to my land lord or something similar. I don't think of MZ as my land lord

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Just wondering if there has been any discussion on Operation Quarantine which I PMed to DeepO this morning since I havent heard from him since...

Cheers
-MZ

Maybe we shoudl send that now ..