Turn 244 : 1270 AD Part II

[DeepO]

e-mail sent. I'll try to get over that plan asap, CH, but let's first see what was posted in the mean time

DeepO

[vmxa1]

Maybe I am lost again, but did not MZ say they have held 36 tanks to land this turn and 8 chained? They only landed 16 of the tanks they had on ships.

Do they not have a settler that can make a town to allow transports to land those tanks and then move them? It is always dangerous for me to go from memory, so if I'm lost forgive me.

[Aeson]

Second time through with 16 bombardments, using more Marines, "bombard" Infantry, and saving Tanks for last:

3 Tanks with 2 moves left
1 Tank with 1 move
4 Infantry

Lego had about 10 promotions they wouldn't have had.. some of the conscripts upgrading when a 2/4 wouldn't, and of course all the "elites" that upgraded.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Defensive bombardment can be somewhat nullified by attacking with units which have less attack power. Losing an Infantry HP is going to hurt much less than losing a Tank HP. Also defensive bombardment can't do anything against a 1 HP unit. GoW should try to take all defensive bombardments possible with their Infantry I think.

As DeepO says, best targets for the Infantry are the Elites. I'd include all Tanks too. A 2 HP Infantry should lose to the Tank, but Lego doesn't get a promotion generally unless the next unit that attacks the Tank loses too. So a 2 HP Infantry can almost be viewed as bombardment if the damaged units are finished off with Marines or Tanks.

Tanks have Blitz, so they should be saved for 1 and 2 HP Infantry, which they can often kill 2 of even at low HPs themselves.

I think using some basic rules for when to attack with what, GoW can still have better than even odds to take the city. I just ran through a scenario twice with preserve random seed off. Once with 26 Artillery, once with 17. As I'm using C3C the Artillery target the units first.

The scenario is using very close to the same number of units (no 1/4 units, just Conscripts instead of 2/X or 1/X HP units, Regulars instead of 3/X HP units, Veterans instead of 4/5 HP units. Lego benefits from this because they get better promotion odds, which then count towards later battles, while GoW's promotions don't help at all except with the Tanks.

The first time I got through with 12 Marines, 9 Infantry, and 1 Tank left available to attack. Second time I got through with 8 Marines, 1 Infantry left available to attack.

I'll run it some more with 17 bombardments.

We most definately need to give this info to MZ. But I've got to take a break again, this damn game has still not given me breakfast, and it's nearing 7 pm...

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Maybe I am lost again, but did not MZ say they have held 36 tanks to land this turn and 8 chained? They only landed 16 of the tanks they had on ships.

Do they not have a settler that can make a town to allow transports to land those tanks and then move them? It is always dangerous for me to go from memory, so if I'm lost forgive me.

vmxa, they have a settler. However, you can only found cities 2 tiles from an existing one. The beauty of Fort Stanwix, is that it blocks GoW from using their settler, for as long as it exists...

no city, no reinforcements either.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by Aeson
Second time through with 16 bombardments, using more Marines, "bombard" Infantry, and saving Tanks for last:

3 Tanks with 2 moves left
1 Tank with 1 move
4 Infantry

Lego had about 10 promotions they wouldn't have had.. some of the conscripts upgrading when a 2/4 wouldn't, and of course all the "elites" that upgraded.

So all the marines died against the infs? strange.

What do you feel about the idea of saving the bombers against the tanks? It feels to me like it won't matter if these were all full hp units, but perhaps it differs with promotions and things like that.

DeepO

[Aeson]

I'm just listing the units with attacks left DeepO. Not survivors. GoW has 20-30 more units that survive after attacking.

Another run through. Bad bombardment this time as Lego still had mostly 3 HP Infantry. 5 Marines made it through.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DeepO


We most definately need to give this info to MZ.

DeepO

Done.

[DeepO]

Ah, okay. Sorry, it should have been obvious at least 20 extra units should have survived, otherwise they couldn't have killed anything

Something else, which might be important: while minimizing the number of promotions, the other important thing is to maximize the hp use of those marines. After all, they are the best attackers, but can only be used once (tanks can be used again, if they survive or retreat). How did this went in your simulations?

DeepO

[DeepO]

CH, I promise I won't go to sleep before I've got a finished report for them... also RP needs to be told. Their attack seems a bit strange right now, next thing we know, they're pillaging our land

DeepO

[DeepO]

Actually, I've got a small idea on how to divide the land later on: let's give Dye fields to RP, and force them to give one dye to GoW, and to us, or face extinction. That way, neither of us is going to discuss how to keep it in our hands, while not given the other anything...

Rubber is obviously something we want. The rest, I don't care...

DeepO

[Aeson]

I tried again, using the Marines at the end. 4 Marines left with movement.

I think the optimal approach is to bombard the 4/4 Infantry away. Attack the 4/5 Infantry with 2/4 Infantry to soak up defensive bombardments. Then attack the 4/4 Tanks once each with a 2/4 Infantry, then bombard them if they didn't get hit. This is to avoid a promotion. Stay with the same strategy on the 3/4 Infantry. If at any point an Elite Tank is showing, attack it with 2/4 Infantry.

Stop using 2/4 Infantry once the defensive bombardment has been gotten through. I'm using 11, so lets hope that's how it works. Start using the 4/4 Marines. This should get through most of the rest of the units. Use the Tanks to clean up low HP Inf and Tanks. Use what's left of the 2/4 Infantry to deal with the Cavalry.

So far in 4 runs I've gotten through each time even with Lego getting 5-10 HPs from promotions they won't get. I'm thinking the odds on this are pretty good given the number of attackers remaining even with Lego's extra HPs.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by DeepO
Actually, I've got a small idea on how to divide the land later on: let's give Dye fields to RP, and force them to give one dye to GoW, and to us, or face extinction. That way, neither of us is going to discuss how to keep it in our hands, while not given the other anything...

Rubber is obviously something we want. The rest, I don't care...

DeepO

I like that idea.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

If this comes off with us getting the land we need, we at least want to have Lego's old capitol back in our hands or razed.

GoW should not get the wonders we captured, they have enough at home already. Let them raze it and plant another city.

This was a true joint effort. If they do not take the first counter attack we do not do what we did. If we did not capture those cities and hit the Fort, they would have no chance to do any thing this turn.

We must have the rubber and RP a new home, after that we would like to not see GoW get anything special. They can have the most land, but not the wonders and all the luxs.

Although I am not sure what we could do about it if they are not willing to deal.

[Aeson]

Another run. This time everything was going great until the last Tank (1/2) was uncovered. I lost 3 Tanks and 6 Infantry to kill it.

2 Tanks and 2 Infantry left with movement.