Grand Alliance to Undermine Lego (GAUL)

[Cort Haus]

As I mentioned on another thread, an 'unnamed source' from GoW, in reply to the Lego Intel, mentioned the logic of a 3-way alliance against Lego. Hinting that the idea is circulating on Bob

RP may approach ND with the Intel too, perhaps trying to sell it to see what ND's reaction is. (I suggested to Arn they should give it a go - they like that sort of thing)

As we've just disbanded our navy and can only spare a dozen units from our wall, we're not in a position to fight a war, but nor were Lego when they joined the alliance against us. If RP complete their sea-wall, and we get a cav-making kit from Bob, we could probably field 30 Cavalry within 15 turns.

The rumour talks of a narrow window between Mil Trad and Nat/Steam.

[Arrian]

I'm fine with cutting Lego out of trades to slow them down, sure, but I'm not really up for helping GoW/ND militarily.

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

I wouldn't be suprised if this wasn't just an attempt to get us to drop the wall.


I'm in favor of a tech/luxury embargo (hell we are already not trading them techs). But any unit response is a bit too much at this point. Though we could drop a couple galleons of cavs I suppose on the west side to divert attention.

This just smells of Vox's second arrival on Bob, ie a setup.

[Arrian]

Yeah, it does. I think GoW is in bed with Lego, so I think they might just be playing along with us - telling us what we want to hear (that they are considering hitting Lego).

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'm fine with cutting Lego out of trades to slow them down, sure, but I'm not really up for helping GoW/ND militarily.

-Arrian

It's a tricky balance. Lego need to bleed, and soon. We'd want them damaged, not destroyed - so an attack would need to be strong, but not too strong.

GoW and ND cannot commit to attacking Lego without our support. They have an entire continent to lose if we're not on their side. We wouldn't have to send troops to Legoland to be a part of it, though the others may expect our participation.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
Yeah, it does. I think GoW is in bed with Lego, so I think they might just be playing along with us - telling us what we want to hear (that they are considering hitting Lego).

-Arrian

Don't GoW sleep with whoever can help them at the time?

We certainly wouldn't want to drop our sea-wall, and saying that to them might test the water a bit. We'll see if they say anything official.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
GoW and ND cannot commit to attacking Lego without our support. They have an entire continent to lose if we're not on their side. We wouldn't have to send troops to Legoland to be a part of it, though the others may expect our participation.

would they take a NAP with us now?

whatever agreement needs to be very very carefully written. Phrases such as "only goes into effect if legoland is attacked at home."


I wonder about those dozen or so lego knights.

What would be fantasticly funny is if they were being withdrawn currently to legoland, and gow waits for them to board their ships, then sinks them. how damaging would that be. 12 knights poof in one fell swoop!

[Arrian]

Ok. Discussing possibilities is fine. Just don't commit us to didly squat yet (I know you wouldn't, but GoW can be pushy sometimes. See how the ill-fated NAP came to be).

But I've very little desire to help GoW and/or ND militarily. Let me explain a bit further:

That's the area GoW are strongest, and we are weakest. They have a large fastmover force, and have Leos. ND is more balanced, but they too are militarily strong and capable. The two of them should have enough military power to seriously damage Lego if they can find a spot to land (I'd be SHOCKED if Lego isn't covering their coastline, at least the one facing Bob).

Without dropping the sea wall (which is not an option), we can only commit a token force, unless we really poured our economy into building horsies and upgrading to Cav. 30 cavalry? Assuming we use what knights we have on hand + some horsies to come up with that number, it's still going to be expensive. Plus we need the transport capacity to deliver those 30 Cavalry... and defensive units to cover the cav (better 10 muskets + 20 cav than just 30 cav). That's 8 galleons. Plus we would need some cover for the galleons. Lots of stuff we don't have right now.

OUR strength is our economy, which is humming along nicely now that we've regeared it for peace. It is with that we can hurt Lego (by trading with the Bobians but not with them, and possibly by getting a tech lead and snatching key wonders out from under them).

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

OK, all points understood. It would put a dent in our economic program and could be tricky to arrange, and we probably wouldn't want to do it. We can still calculate the price of this 'contingency', though.

We have 24 Knights, (12 spare), and 5 galleys. If RP complete their wall we get another dozen units available. We'd need to build six pikes/cats to make up the numbers on the wall, three more galleons and at maybe six frigates. Maybe about 3 turns-worth of empire production in shield terms.

Then the cash : 20 Knights-to-Cav, 10 Pike-to-Musket and 5 Galleys-to-Galleons. What's that? 1200g? About 3 turns of research time.

So three turns of output is a rough price-tag for sending 10 Muskets and 20 Cav to Legoland. That's the supply side.

On the demand side, the kind of scenario that could warrant such a venture might be if Lego was bogged down on one side by GoW / ND, and we turned up on another. The destruction of Legopolis with Bach & Sistine would be quite a prize. This may be an impractical idea, but I just wanted to explore the idea a bit and maybe put a plan/idea on the shelf, so-to-speak.

[Cort Haus]

(That estimate didn't include any costs to obtain Mil Trad and Saltpeter)

[vmxa1]

I just got up so if I am not cogent, ignore me. The thing that come to me is that if I ignore all the scenarios for back stabbing, what do I get?

I think that any invasion that did not fail could lead to Lego being eliminated. I would think any invasion of Bob or Stormia would go the same way. The defenders either drive the invaders out or lose everything.

In that case, Lego would probably be split largely between the Bobians. So how much land could we afford them to have?

The best scenario right now for us is an invasion of Lego that fails and does not include us in a large way. cost all three parties lots of headway.

As to the intrigue it is beyond my expertise. I would say it is very wise to be suspicous.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by vmxa1


I think that any invasion that did not fail could lead to Lego being eliminated. I would think any invasion of Bob or Stormia would go the same way. The defenders either drive the invaders out or lose everything.

In that case, Lego would probably be split largely between the Bobians. So how much land could we afford them to have?

The best scenario right now for us is an invasion of Lego that fails and does not include us in a large way. cost all three parties lots of headway.

Yes. Ideally, Legopolis with its two happy-wonders and a couple of other core cities would be destroyed after a bloody conflict and a rails/rifles stalemate would follow. If the invasion succeeded completely and destroyed Lego, the GoW/ND alliance could legitimately declare a joint domination victory. Even if the other teams did not accept, it's checkmate, and only a matter of time before ourselves and the minor teams are eliminated. If only two allies are left standing and declare victory, who's left to deny them that?

We don't play for grudges, but there would be at least be some satisfaction for GS to see Lego destroyed before ourselves by the alliance they sided with against us.

[Arrian]

Honestly, how many people think that Lego don't have their coastline covered and/or have picket ships in the right spots to see incoming invaders so they can shuffle units around to cover the coast in the right spot(s)?

I must say that I doubt an invasion of Legoland will be possible before marines. To the extent that GoW and/or ND are looking at a massive Cav upgrade, they are most likely doing so in preparation of fighting each other, not Lego.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

I think that is the most likely scenario. No invasions, only fake hints at it. The war is more likely to be GoW and ND. They have access to each other and have to worry about the other.

Either that or all stand pat for a long time. How a war could be set up without hurting the both of them, I am not sure.

The bet chance is if they do it soon. Before either Lego or GS could afford to jump in and get and hold land.

[Tall Stranger]

I, too, am in the "highly skeptical" camp. That said, however, I see no major downside to playing along, provided some basic security measures are implemented. Think Machiavelli.

If they are trying to play a game with us, the best thing we can do is to act as though they've succeeded. I'd recommend we start by "seeking more information." Much of it is stuff they'd expect us to ask, such as:

1) "What type of support are you expecting from us? After all, your highly capable military forces have largely decimated our noble armies. We are now a peace-loving people."

2) "What do we stand to gain from such an effort?"

3) "What are you prepared to contribute to such an effort?"

4) "How do you plan to surprise Lego, since it is highly likely that they will have a sea wall and pickets to detect any planned attack?"

The point here is that, if they are indeed trying to get us to lower our defenses, we are better off pretending to believe them. If we call them on their deception, we lose any chance to foil their plan.

In fact, by seeming interested but wary ("We'd like to believe you, but UnO's comments that he wants to remove us from the game make us a bit leery of trusting you."), we may get them to reveal more than they'd like. It may also open the door to a way to turn the tables on them and deal ourselves back into the game.

Just a thought.