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  • Possible message to ND

    Here is a rather random first draft of a possible message to ND - mostly to spark discussion in this forum of what we actually want to put in.

    Greetings Darekill,

    As you've probably heard, the discovery that Lego were willing to enter the war if we attacked the Glory of War's or your homeland has caused us some problems, and prompted some attempts at diplomacy on our part. I expect you've been told that we tried to negotiate a deal with GoW to get them to attack Neu Demogyptica, and divide Bob between GoW, Gathering Storm and Lego (with, very roughly, equal amounts of land in total for each being the plan). Despite GoW being offered more land than they would have sharing Bob with you, they turned us down (I think we were offering them 500 tiles or so, with the other 250 on Bob going to us, Lego and possibly Roleplay). So now we need a new plan.

    It probably won't surprise you that our new plan is to try and persuade you to attack GoW in alliance with us. This plan is only in outline at the moment, but of the 750 tiles on Bob we'd be offering a deal where you get 600 of them, and we get the other 150 (in the area that is currently the charred remains of Spain). That would give us roughly 350 tiles in total, including Stormia, to be shared between us and Roleplay. Lego would still have 400, not including land in Vox. This would put you on an equal footing with Lego - with more land but less development, and leave us still in with a slight chance in the game.

    The details can obviously be hammered out in the near future, but this note is just to ask whether you have any interest in some kind of deal of this nature, or whether you are determined to stick with your current arrangement with GoW on Bob.

    P.S. Ignore Sir Ralph's poetry criticism - he is an uncultured barbarian.

  • #2
    I think it's too direct to reveal our intentions in the very first post. And for that last comment, at you!

    Comment


    • #3
      So how much do you think we can reveal. That we are interested in peace? That we want peace plus an alliance vs GoW? Or is just the strategic outline of how we see the balance of power too much?

      I think offering peace only is a bit weak - we can pretty much assume they'd be up for that, so saying "do you want peace?" "yes - what are the terms?" is an exchange of PMs to no effect. I'm guessing that they know that we approached GoW to attack them, and have either been told or can reasonably guess the kind of offer we could make (in terms of land anyway). So they might be expecting something similar from us to them, and would probably also turn it down in sympathy with GoW's loyalty. So the land figures are thrown in to get their attention and make them think seriously about the offer.

      After that, they can probably see the consequences as well as we can - they have 600 tiles, we have 350, Lego has 400 (probably more for ND and less for us in practice). So we're not giving away anything by putting it in so many words, and Darekill might just appreciate the plain speaking.

      That at least was my line of thinking when drafting this.

      I suppose the alternative would be some kind of "are you determined to stick to your alliance with GoW, or can you be seduced for a suitable price?". I just worry that that might be dismissed straight away because they don't think we'll make an offer anywhere near as good as we are thinking now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Let's discuss this a bit later and maybe wait for some others to coin in. We have nowhere to hurry. I'm awfully tired after work and in a pretty bad mood, let me rest a bit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes, a good idea to start a thread on this subject - and some issues have already been highlighted.

          We would have to tread carefully, and I'd suggest that any first move would probably be to gently open diplomatic channels - with a view to peace talks but without really saying anything - to see how they react. I think it's too early to start talking high stakes.

          They have no reason to trust us, every reason to hate us, and doubtless feel they have the upper hand. They may be interested in peace, but until we've got somewhere with those talks, I think that the suggestion of 'Steamed Rice' should have the lid kept on it until the time is right. If - as is possible, GoW and ND split up, that might be a time to get allied with ND.

          We have to expect that they won't split up while we're still on Bob.

          Comment


          • #6
            I doubt ND will backstab GoW. However, it does no harm to try.

            Though I wouldn't be at all surprised if ND was aware of our attempt at setting up an alliance to destroy them, I think we might be better served by going down this road:

            Inform them we're interested in peace, but remain unwilling to concede *all* of Bob. We recognize they have the upper hand militarily and diplomatically (an allusion to Lego's choice and GoW's decision to turn us down, without actually saying it), and will negotiate accordingly, but surely they must also recognize that every turn they have to fight us is a turn they cannot be developing Bob. That's really about the only leverage we have.

            Frankly, the logic actually applies to GoW much more than to ND. It's GoW that's REALLY screwed by our defense of Spain, because that's the land they were supposed to get and our presense has thus far denied it to them. But no matter.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              Let's deal with this after getting the turn out, but I agree that the original was too detailed. Good start though.
              The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

              Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hmmm... how about a much more general overture?

                [quote]Greetings Darekill,

                First off, congratulations on your successes at the Forest of Doom... mothers and chicken trainers throughout Stormia mourn as we speak.

                Second, keep writing poems when the spirit takes you! We apologize at the resultant furor; your intent and respect are understood.

                As you know, we have been pursuing a certain diplomatic and military path. Along with the terrible loss of our Knights, but, more importantly, considering the long-term course of the game, we tire of these Bobian wars. And, as you are surely concerned, we feel that this conflict overly benefits a different party: Lego.

                We would be interested in a dialogue, or even a tri-alogue, about a resolution. We believe that each of three of us - ND, GoW, and GS - have currency to mutually offer one another.

                As has been noted in the public forum, GS has been working on becoming a better diplomatic player... but we have not engaged in any material discussion with you. Perhaps now could be a beginning?

                Respectfully,
                vulture
                (many glorious titles)
                The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, Darekill has told SR that

                  (a) his poem was crap, and intended to mildly taunt us
                  (b) his 'defenders' on the forum were not defending him, so much as using it as an excuse to get on the bandwagon against us
                  (c) he doesn't have anything against any of us

                  This is excellent news, and I say we should use Theseus' draft. I like the notion of a tri-alogue. As Arrian has said, it's GoW that we shafted by adopting our position on Bob, and it's their paycheck from ND (Spain) that we're sitting on.

                  So we've got everything to gain and nothing to lose from this.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So vulture / SR, can someone get this show on the road for us?

                    I reckon GoW want to carry on the slog, however sane Aggie comes across, and I'm just about ready to give up on them. It's possible that ND may consider a halt. If they won't then we're off Bob, AFAICS.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I've sent the message (Theseus' version) to Darekill, and he has already responded, just to say that he's posted it on theit forum and they will discuss it and get back to us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cort Haus
                        So vulture / SR, can someone get this show on the road for us?
                        It's better if vulture does it (duh, he already did...), because I'm a horrible diplomat. I tend to get too emotional. Let me better evaluate the situation and the best psychological approach based on their national traits from the background. I can chime in in difficult situations, or go on a "recon mission" like my recent PM change with Darekill, that's better usage of me.

                        Will say, use me as a weapon on occasion (duh, what a braggart I am... ) rather to wear me out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You are not a horrible diplomat. I don't think you are, anyway. Well, maybe we're just both horrible diplomats and we cancel out?

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ND say no to peace now (see log) - we and RP must be off what they call 'Borconia' (Bob/Spain?)- and sign a never-come-back treaty!

                            So if we and RP are gone but we refuse to sign a never-again-do-we-touch-Bob treaty, then the war continues. Interesting.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is this the time to start negotiating a public "get the hell off Bob and don't come back until we say you can" ("yes Daddy!") and a private "We'll got for now, but come back and help you trash GoW, in return for some land" treaty?

                              Comment

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