Possible message to ND

[vmxa1]

I have only had one look at the game and it is not in front of me now. I do not know what their land consist of, but it seems that if Lego, GoW and GS get to the industrial age, it could come down to resources or the lack of them (if land is more or less the same as now).

So if that is correct, why would you want to roll the dice? If they do not get coal and can't trade for it or lack oil they will be opened for an invasion.
Are they betting they will be able to be safe to the end and their land will be enough to pull out the game?

My lack of experience in these types of games makes it hard to judge some of these factors especially how important it is to keep deals. I mean I have read some post that make it soiund as if it carries from game to game, if so them I understand. iven the length of time and the changing of players, I am not so sure it should be crucial. One or two changes of mind and purpose would seem to make sense.

[asleepathewheel]

I think Lego is trying to win via culture or spaceship, hence they are trying to keep bob divided and isolate us on Stormia. Hell, they might even be trying for a diplo win. Lego's founding priciple was to be a builder nation. They have admitted that they would have deviated from that course had they not been given an isolated continent. So who knows. They have also made it known that they would break a treaty if it serves their interests. No suprises there.

As long as Aggie is in control of GoW, we can make deals with them. The others on their team, Unorthodox, panzer32, hotenamel, would like nothing more than to see us removed from the game. a glimpse into their minds is in the war weariness thread onthe main forum.I don't think anyone here particularly cares who leaves the game, so long as we win, and that's even after the ugliness and slander from the vox war.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

As long as Aggie is in control of GoW, we can make deals with them. The others on their team, Unorthodox, panzer32, hotenamel, would like nothing more than to see us removed from the game.

I'd put it a bit differently: We can make progress towards deals with GoW with Aggie in charge, but at the end of the day he only has one vote - so it's the others who call the policy. Despite it being to our detriment, that's cool by me - it's their democratic choice.

I think Aggie plays a good role for them. As most of GoW are pretty wild, they can use a calm head like his.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by vmxa1
My lack of experience in these types of games makes it hard to judge some of these factors especially how important it is to keep deals. I mean I have read some post that make it soiund as if it carries from game to game, if so them I understand. iven the length of time and the changing of players, I am not so sure it should be crucial. One or two changes of mind and purpose would seem to make sense.

Good question.

I don't think anyone expects anyone to be angels - it's a competitive game. Having said that, reputation can count for a lot more in this game than against the AI.

The first thing I learned about this type of gaming is that much of what I knew about civ was how to beat the AI, not several teams of very able humans. Being at war with two or three AI civs is usually no big deal to an experienced player. Against humans, the enemy can co-ordinate and co-operate in ways the AI never can.

As Master Zen and others have pointed out on the gen forum, this is a new type of gaming and we're all n00bs at it, finding our way. Teams that failed to get the diplo right - for being too demanding, or simply not pro-active enough and letting the other guys' propaganda win through - they all lost out in some way - including GS. In our case, early economic and miltary success flagged as us a threat. Because of this, Lego feared us and tipped the balance to a one-versus-three power struggle.

On deal-breaking : It's not like the AI where you fire up a new game next week and no-one knows what you did last time. If, for example, BigFree and Togas on RP backstabbed us after what we've done for them, none of us, and probably no-one else would ever trust them again in a demo game again. Yes, regimes certainly can change, but memories don't. Especially if you're GoW - who apparantly maintain 'grudge threads' against teams and individuals.

Some deals have been subject to interpretation and endless bickering - including the notorious NAP's (Non Aggression Pact) which collide awkwardly with MPP's that in this format can come at any time in the game. There are lots of accusations and counter-accusations between teams about deals that went off, but I don't think I've seen any deals broken in the last few months. We tried to get GoW to backstab ND, of course, but technically we would have been delivering GoW one contract (RP off Bob) and opening a new one. We don't know whether ND know of our attempts but I'd be amazed if they didn't. They don't bear us any grudge at the moment - they just said so.

On the whole, I gather that GS has historically tried to honour it's deals, whatever GoW whining might say, though there are GS voices who have always disagreed with this policy-slant.

[vmxa1]

I understand. I just would not be bothered if someone had a good reason to make a better deal. I would hold a grudge on anyone that talk down to me or was nasty, that is personal.
Back stabbing in the game is part of the strategy (up to a point).

[Theseus]

Hmmm... backstabbing is not for me.

If we can get some other team to backstab, then great, fault to them as far as I am concerned.

But not us, no. We will win on our skills, not on nefarious dealings.

So it is just a game, yeah... but I care about this game quite a bit, and if principles can be paramount, well, I'd rather that here than with my family's lives at stake in RL.

As far as I am concerned, we'll play this out as well as we can, and as *best* as we can... or die trying.

I hope I said that right, as it is important to me.

[vmxa1]

Sorry I did not mean I would be for doing it, only that I would not hate others for it. I mean that back stabbing to me is not the same as making a new deal. Back stabbing is I tell you one thing, while I never intend to honor it.
If I say I will trade you X for y gpt and 40 turns later decide I would rather trade it to someone else, that is not back stabbing.

If you save my life and I join someone else to take you down (in the game) much later, that is to be expected, if it is my best interest. If I do just to the heck of it, that is another story.
I hope I am clear, probably not.

[notyoueither]

As far as I am concerned, we'll play this out as well as we can, and as *best* as we can... or die trying.

AKA... Fight the good fight.

[Cort Haus]

I noticed that Lego had the save, so I decided to ask Vondrack for Gunpowder - worth a try, surely.

[Harovan]

I would really enjoy to see Legos destruction.

[Cort Haus]

Me, it's the GoW destruction I'd really enjoy.

[Harovan]

That too, but I would royally enjoy to piss off vondrack.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
That too, but I would royally enjoy to piss off vondrack.

Lego's turn to feel the heat will come. Either ND eat GoW and turn on Lego or ND/GoW turn on them. Hopefully we can watch them all bleed each other while we build up until someone offers us the right price.

[Arrian]

I just wanna see Lego bleed a bit. They are the only civ that hasn't actually had to fight yet.

By the way, how scary is it that they still haven't had their GA?

You know... we might need to start pondering a prebuild for a late medieval or industrial age wonder. I'm sure Lego is all over trying for Smith's (who doesn't want that one!), but there are others. Copernicus & Newton are out there. The major empires might not pay much attention to them, but with the Colossus in Hurricane, we might do well to consider building one.

Or, thinking further in advance, what about ToE?

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Yes, I fancy Copernicus in Hurricane. We could do that next, after the Uni, perhaps via a palace prebuild until the last minute.

Prebuilding the ToE would be cool - it would take some planning - sounds like a job for the Spanish Tunnel King - aka Arrian

I don't think I've ever considered the ToE before getting gunpowder before