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Nothing we can do about it if they come up with a leader, so just have to go on th ebasis it won't happen.
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this night (!) I realised again it has been too long since I saw the tech tree... it's first atom. theory, and only afterwards electronics, right? I always mixed these up. Could someone please give the editor values for these techs, or how much they will still cost after we researched them?
Even with a leader, we've got a very good shot at getting Hoover, provided we don't trade Atom Theory away in the first 5 turns after we get it (this still assumes we get the ToE... which in itself means we must have coal to be sure, as it has to be build the exact same turn we discover SM). I'm not sure, but we're still first in beaker output, right? or would Lego have passed us if they wouldn't be in their GA? We should have a reasonable estimate of what bpt they can get at 100% after their GA is finished...
DeepOComment
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Tech Prices
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GRRR!!!!! Why can't we display pictures anymore?
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Anyway, Atomic Theory is a whopping 4800 beakers!
Also, the difference between Electronics and Rep Parts is about 1000 beakers. Added to this is the need for the Hoov itself as a shield-holder - and we have to take Electronics, not Rep Parts as the second ToE tech.Comment
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Thanks CH!
9120 * 80% (2nd researcher, right?) gives 7290 beakers, in 11 turns (with leader).
atom in 6 means 640 bpt
electron in 5 means 692 bpt
Hmmm... we currently estimate 480 bpt ourselves, right? at 70%, so 685 bpt at max... if Lego does better then us, they have a chance of finishing Hoover, even if we get ToE. But it will cost them dearly.
Conclusion is simple: every turn we can get off that ETA is one turn more security. We have a very good shot, but need extreme focus, and need to make sure we don't goof up.
DeepOComment
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I think it devalues by 10% if researched once - from what I observed of the late MA beaker counts. That widens our margin.Comment
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It's worth mentioning that all this hinges on GoW having Medicine at the right time. We don't know yet how we're going to do this and there is a considerable amount of work ahead if we are to achieve it.Comment
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Indeed...
GoW and medicine: they have a lot of time before we need it. we can get to SM in 4 turns...
Something else I just realised: Lego doesn't need to wait 4 turns, they just need enough cash. They can steal Electronics from us... if they do that, there is no way we can avoid them having Hoover before us, so we can't take it into account when planning.
Planning: what patch is this save on? I might look into it, and come up with a plan for the next few turns, if I can play it without too many problems. It goes against what I wanted to do, but given our situation, it may be better if I take the save, instead of working from screenies...
DeepOComment
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PTW 1.21f
The Espionage problem was discussed (somewhat despairingly on my part) recently. There doesn't seem to be much that can be done except hope that they don't research Espionage, or we get RNG lucky, and/orLego's production gets trashed or commerce diverted. Our build could get sabotaged as well through Espionage, ISTR someone said.
As for GoW and Medicine, we'll need it in about 15 turns. We need to know GoW's beaker capacity - eg 200bpt will do Med in 12 turns, but we need to get them ToG first, probably on credit, then they need to finish Mil Trad and save for the 200 they owe us, plus all their upgrades. Should be possible.Comment
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What am I saying? They don't need Espionage.Comment
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Well it depends they are highly unlikely to research espionage as it would be a serious diversion/expense of research turns.
Aslong as they don't have espionage we can block any stealing by declaring war on them. So all we really need is a reason to declare war on them
hmmmn things falling nicely into place? 
Are we having fun yet?Comment
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No, but it reduces the cost and improves the success chances, doesn't it - which makes the difference (in some cases) between it being worthwhile to steal tech and being better value to research it yourself.Comment
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I would think they would not go for espionage. If they do that, they have to build the IA, then buy a spy and get it planted.
Only then can they try to steal. So they need time and cash for that route.Comment
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can you plant spies when at war?
And, I know you need cash, but they might have more cash then beakers when their GA finishes... if no war has been declared, they will have several thousands of gold in their treasury. If we take ToE, they should realize it's the only way for them, and if they investigate EotS (easy, with that cash reserve), they can plan for it. The main attraction is that they don't need to wait, stealing is immediate (in SP at least)
CH, could you send me the save to steven.bex@chello.be ? Just this once, I don't want to receive it regularly. Thanks!
Medicine: if we want to get SM in 20 turns, 17 turns is the latest for GoW to finish it. as diplomacy is before the rest of the turn (I thought), we could set research to Medicine at 0%, accept the tech, change research to SM, and have ToE build 3 turns later. But that's way too risky, so in our contract with GoW we need to make absolutely sure they will provide it to us earlier then that! And with penalties as well: per turn later, they will pay us 2000 gold or something similar... no room for 'mistakes' on their part.
DeepOComment
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