Adam Smith's College

[DeepO]

i was just counting for EotS... it needs serious reworking (some of these improvements have to be redone afterwards, as other cities lend these, but I get to 34 spt with RR everywhere.

That is:
3 shields from the city tile
0 shields (but 5 food each) from 2 floodplains
16 shields from 4 mined, furred plains
12 shields from 4 mined, non-furred plains
3 shields from the mined, furred grass
2 shields from a mined, non-furred grass
-2 waste

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds to me as the city at 0 fpt... and I know it temporarily damages output of other cities, but it is the max we can get.

we won't have enough workers to do all improvements in one turn, but we might start early by already RRing irrigated plains, or leave have some specialists while we're waiting for SM. If we plan it right, the risk is very low that Lego will get Hoover if we build ToE: 12 turns after ToE, Hoover is ready. If nobody builds the GLib, it should be ours. Lego might be able to research electronics in 5 turns, but I highly doubt that they will be able to research atomics in 6 turns, and they need to gain both techs in 11 turns if they want to deny us the wonder. Don't forget that their GA will be over by then, they can go 100% research (as they likely have enough gold), but not more then that...

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

Hey, that looks good, DeepO. I'll let Arrian cross-check the figures I'd been so locked into the micro-plans for each town's growth I forgot about wiping the slate clean and maxing out the capital.

The mass RR would start around Sci Meth - we'll have it on around 400s in the GLib at that point (unless Lego builds the GLib just to zap our prebuild). Though, with WF juggling we could prepare before - RRing the terrain but holding back some shields if too close.

Maybe if we snag these babies that we're after, we could produce some Wonder Poetry for the public forum .... make a change from the War Poems.

[Cort Haus]

Macro-thought for the IA economy - Stock Exchanges, then Commercial Docks.

In SP, if we're fleecing the AI for silly GPT it's hardly worth building Banks, let alone Stock Exchanges. They'll be more valuable here.

Of course, we'll hopefully be building Infantry and Arty by the ton around that stage, but we could maybe earmark a dedicated coastal commerce city or two for cash-generation. Commercial Docks in these cities would be a good addition.

[DeepO]

I thought so, CH... that you were focused on our current situation. I'm sure that once you were really plaing the turn, yuo would have found the same, though.

I have been checking if we steal a lot of tiles from other cities, and although I'm not sure how the tiles are divided now, I think the burden on other cities will be minimal. Hurricane might need to work more sea, but by that time that is no problem at all, as extra commerce means more beakers in our science city. The rest should be safe, I think, some changes might be needed, but we won't starve other cities because we max out our capital.

Some minor ideas though: we can't finish any of the science wonders earlier by letting other cities starve, can we? I was just thinking of Sistine: if that is a prebuild, it could be used for one of the science wonders we're hoping for. I would hate to lose one to Lego when we're so close...

and commercial docks: Hurricane simply needs one, and in general we should build it everywhere possible. We should see how much they will gain us, but I'm sure that in many cases, we should even rush these... if the return is 10 or 20 turns, this might be a superb way to spend gold on.

DeepO

[DeepO]

mhhh... I just realized something... we might start pumping EotS' production earlier. That way, we maybe could get a CH in before the wonder prebuild, which woul;d be 'free' as it will generate one extra commerce I think. (and one more shield as well)

DeepO

[vmxa1]

I am not sure, but I think Docks have 3 maint, so you need to have 3 or more worked tiles to get a gain. I know I tend to build them if the city has 4 or more water tiles worked.

[Cort Haus]

What we could do is make shield-metros inland, and let coastals concentrate on sea-tiles. They'd have few shields, but would power the commerce. Hurricane would be the exception - that wants to go metro.

[DeepO]

euh, vmxa... you need more then 2 tiles you mean, provided a market and bank are present. The more the better, of course

I know, at 50% you only get 1 gpt per commerce with a bank, but even then it can be argued that more beakers also count. And seeing out map, all our coastal cities can use them. But of course they cost a lot to build.

When rushing, we should make he following balance: turns gained times gold + beakers gained as opposed to gold spend in the rush. Especially in very watery cities, it might turn out to be very effective to rush. Cities like Sufa can gain an extra 15-20 gpt with a dock, while it costs many turns to complete one... a rush could be regained there in minimal time.

DeepO

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by DeepO
euh, vmxa... you need more then 2 tiles you mean, provided a market and bank are present. The more the better, of course

No I meant that if it costs 3 for maint and yields 1 extra commerce per worked tile, you would need to have at least 3 worked tiles to break even.

Banks and markets have no effect on that consideration. You already have commerce from the coastal tiles and the multipliers are already in effect. Even if we could or do get a bonus on top of the Dock boost, if it is less than three tiles worked, it is a close call.

So do I have that wrong?

[Cort Haus]

That's they way I decide on Comm-Docks - 3 sea tiles minimum. In our case, most coastal cities will be good for one.

[DeepO]

It doesn't matter really, as all our coastal cities have more then 3 tiles worked, I think. So consider the following nit-picking

1 extra commerce means, at 100% tax with market and bank 2 extra gold (before corruption). or at 100% science 2 beakers with libs and unis. If we take, to make it easier in comparing, 1 gold = 1 beaker, that means that the cost of a dock (3 gpt) is offset with only 2 tiles. You can even have 25% corruption in that city... 3 tiles would give 3 more commerce, but 6 more gold.

But again, it doesn't matter, as we have loads of coast, and our cities all use more then 4 tiles. Purely commercially, it will be a good thing to build in all but the most corrupt cities. Sadly, it costs shields as well

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

nice analysis

Here's a wacky idea.

Say the war with Lego goes well and their long term plans are disrupted.
Say that we actually got Democracy from Vox a turn or two before the war started.
Would it be worth a turn of anarchy to get the worker boost, and thus quicker rail production?

[DeepO]

sleepy, the worker boost and fewer corruption would help... but we can't risk it before we build Hoover. The only way when we could risk it is if we knew Lego was so far behind that they would need at least 12 turns to get from SM to atomics.

BTW, does anyone know at what levels the palace builds holds 1000 shields instead of 700? Or is there a 800 palace as well? And... any guesses at how many cities Lego currently have? These are important as well: if Lego only has a 700 shield prebuild, we have at least 2 more turns: they need to build from 700(palace) to 800(Hoover) after having discovered Atom. At 33 shields, that is at least 2 turns, meaning that if they discover SM the turn we complete ToE, they have to discover electronics and atom in 9 turns to beat our GLib prebuild. No way... not even if they aren't at war.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Oh damn... just noticed something: those 2 extra turns only hold if they haven't got a leader from fighting... otherwise they don't need a palace prebuild at all.

DeepO

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
What we could do is make shield-metros inland, and let coastals concentrate on sea-tiles. They'd have few shields, but would power the commerce. Hurricane would be the exception - that wants to go metro.

I like it.