Adam Smith's College

[Cort Haus]

Er, I'll check ...

[Cort Haus]

Right, that 420 is without the science wonders.

We're on 405bpt@70% at the moment, with 2 science wonders and five libs coming. That lot should take us to about 480.

[Cort Haus]

We might not manage to keep 70% up, though, there'll be a few turns of 60%.

EotS or Arashi were possible Hoov-spots, it wasn't decided. Arashi could get 20+spt and can use a Palace.

[Arrian]

Ok. 24 turns is the fastest we could hope to get to Sci Method without tech trades to assist us. More likely is 25-26 turns.

If we can convince GoW to do a Medicine + cash (deferred, possibly?) for Steam Power trade, however, we could get to Sci Method in ~20 turns.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

So if the speediest ToE is the absolute goal, Industrialisation doesn't get researched, and we slow down Tempest, hoping that GoW will defer Nationalism and research Medicine.

If GoW don't want to do Medicine, we slow down Tempest a bit more and start a Hoover prebuild in Arashi or EotS soon.

[Arrian]

I'm an idiot.

We're not ~20-24 turns from Sci Method, we're ~26-30 turns away.

I was so into calculating the Industrial Age stuff, I forgot about the 6 more turns of medieval research we've left to do.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Right then, if we let Newton's complete in 9 turns, Tempest would get to 609 shields (ToE) in 38 turns. If we expect 6 turns for the rest of magnetism + ToG, 6 turns for Steam, 6 turns for Medicine, 8 turns for Electricity and 6 turns for Sci method, that's 32 turns from now. If we manage a medicine trade, that drops to 26 turns.

So sorry, 26-32 turns from Sci Method. 38 turns from getting to 600 shields in Tempest if we allow it to finish Newtons. The first question is can we cut 6-12 turns off of that number via railroading? That would mean, I assume, having all the workers we can muster positioned around Tempest at the end of T185 (I'm projecting Steam to be discovered on or about T186). My guess would be we could shave a few turns off, but not 6 and certainly not 12.

Question number two is can we turn another city into an effective ToE prebuild (again, factoring in a boost from RRing)? Can we use EotS? If we did use EotS, what would the prebuild be (can't use the palace, and Sistine isn't reliable enough)? If not EotS, what are our other options? Arashi, perhaps sped up via WF shuffling with Tempest after Tempest finishes Newton?

If nothing else seems viable, we should start planning on slowing Tempest down (8-14 turns worth of slowing down) and using it for ToE.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Even if we pull all that off, we still need to set up a Hoover prebuild.

I believe this requires Industrialization, not only for a factory, but also for Universal Suffrage, for use as a prebuild.

Hopefully, we can trade for it (Elect for Ind + cash). From the perspective of getting Hoover built, the sooner we get Ind the better. From the perspective of ToE, we can't really afford to detour and research Ind ourselves (unless it's part of a Steam+Ind for Med + Elec trade).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Hmm, if we go with Arashi for ToE, which will take 28 turns from now w/o RR assistance, then we could turn Tempest into a Hoover prebuild.

Tempest is, if I'm right, at 231 shields, producing 21spt. 800-231 = 569. 569/21 = 27.1. 28 turns.

Obviously, both could be speeded up some w/RRing.

The hitch is that we have no prebuild big enough for Hoover. How big is our Palace again? 600 or 700 shields? Bah, either way it's too small and we need Industrialization for a U.S. prebuild prior to finishing Hoover.

Two options: 1) trade for it; 2) select it as one of the 2 free techs (ouch).

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

If we drop Newton, that'll pull the science down by about 20bpt.

We always new the optimimum prebuild timing would be a headache because the tech trades are hard to predict. With war another unknown, other teams won't find it any easier.

The Palace holds 700s, but we'll be using that at first for ToE. All we can do is time a build to 400s at ToE, using the GLib, then take Atomic Theory and Electronics and do ten turns of Hoov and hope Lego aren't nine turns behind.

If we take Atomic Theory and Replacable Parts instead, then we won't have the Hoov for the shields to go in, so we can't build the Hoov in EotS.

[Arrian]

Ok, so we want 400 shields built up somewhere 'round about the time we complete ToE (which right now looks like ~25-26 turns in Arashi, possibly 28 if we have no coal. In which case we're totally screwed, but whatever).

Tempest, then? Starts prebuilding @ 21spt on T183. Reaches 399 shields on T202. It can hopefully get some RR assistance too.

EotS is the other option, I guess. 18 spt there? Cathedral in 5 (4 if we shortrush a pike next turn)? Anyway, EotS would build up 396 shields in 22 turns, which is about right if we get the cathedral out of the way first. 22 + 4 to 5 = 26-27. T200-T201 it would get to 396 shields. That's without RRing changing the shield count.

Overall, I think Tempest and EotS wind up in a virtual tie for completing Hoover, before factoring in what RRing may do to their shield output. That's the next step, I guess. Working out what we can get Arashi and Tempest or EotS to produce via RRing, and to take it one step further, how quickly our workers can do it, assuming they are in position on T186, ready to start RRing around Arashi. If we really want to do it right, we do just enough RRing around Arashi to lower the turns to ToE as much as we can, and then move on to RRing around either Tempest or EotS (whichever is the best choice for Hoover). Hmm, having said that, Tempest is probably the place, because of proximity to Arashi... the workers will be right there already.

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

EotS is on 16spt for 5 turns while EotS-9 is lent to Hurricane. That might affect the cathedral's short-rush.

[Cort Haus]

re: Arashi, turn 174, pasted in from another thread :

Originally posted by Arrian
19spt, 5 turns until Bank. How many shields does it have built up now (76?)?

If it starts after the Bank, it needs 37 turns to get to 600 shields (most likely a couple less, due to RRing). Call it 35. Too many, if we expect Sci Method in 26-32 turns.

So we would probably want to switch it right now. If I'm right and it does have 76 shields built up now, then it would need 28 turns to get past 600, again likely less due to RRing.

-Arrian

The Uni finished in Arashi on T170, so yes, 76s in the can.

So with no tech trades, and no Industrialisation, Arashi is currently on the right trajectory to build ToE.

[Cort Haus]

This is complicated, and we need to summarise, first, without rails :

We get Sci-Meth in ~32 turns with no trades if we sustain 70% research, which should remain approx break-even with RP's contribution, some rising maintenance but with mkts and banks coming.

If we can trade for Medicine, that falls to ~26 turns.

If Arashi switches from Bank to prebuild, it can reach 600s in 28 turns, timing well with a 26 turn research. If we can't trade for Medicine we can slow it down.

Hoover Dam can be built either in Tempest (instead of Newton) or EotS (after the Bank). Either of these can get to 400s in around T200-T202, around 28 turns from now. If we don't trade for Medicine, they'll need slowing down.

[vmxa1]

It seems to me that no one in their right mind will trade us Medicine, unless they are up against the wall.

That is a gateway to ToE and allows metros. They know that as long as that is not researched they are in the running.