Adam Smith's College

[Cort Haus]

Spain

aargh! wrong thread again.

[Cort Haus]

Beaker Counts T167 - 520AD

Chemistry
Base Cost : 60
Full Beaker Cost : 1440
Current Cost : 1015
Devaluation : 30%

Music Theory
Base Cost : 40
Full Beaker Cost : 960
Current Cost : 768
Devaluation : 20%

Economics
Base Cost : 56
Full Beaker Cost : 1344
Current Cost : 1344
Devaluation : 0%

Navigation
Base Cost : 56
Full Beaker Cost : 1344
Current Cost : 1210
Devaluation : 10%

Democracy
Base Cost : 68
Full Beaker Cost : 1632
Current Cost : 1696
Devaluation : -10% Huh? This must be what NYE found.

So aside from the Democracy wierdness (we should ask Vox about that) it looks like Economics is unresearched, but Navigation is. We should check previous turns for the Nav count.

Is Lego about to build Magellans?

[Cort Haus]

Plan for Hurricane

In 7 turns time Hurricane gets use of EotS-9. This should have the following effect and deliver the wonder in the same number of turns as now with its -1fpt.



EotS' Bank is due in 7 turns, so hopefully we won't lose anything on that build either

[vmxa1]

Ok maybe you guys can expain this to me. First how do you come up with your discounted number?
What is the method used to get your current cost?

I have been fooling around today (instead of playing much) with a spread sheet to try to get the values.

I am seeing the current value a tad higher than the flat cost should be? The expample I am looking at is a C3C game where I have two civs with contact and the tech knowledge I am researching. Seven civs in the game still.

I mean if I have a start value and a current vlaue, I can see how to determine a discount percentage, but I am not sure I have either of the values needed.

Here is the xls I am using.

[vmxa1]

Hum I could not find a browse to attach it?

here is the link to it:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2683794#post2683794

[Cort Haus]

Here's the xls I used.

I don't know how the map size and no_of_civs affect the multiplier - all I know is that this game (regent) has a multiplier of 24.

I set the slider at each %, and noted the 'Science' total in the Expenses section of the F1. Multiply by the number of turns showing for the beakers spent to reach the tech at that rate. The lowest is the nearest. (The exact amount can be worked out by making entertainers in cities to lower the commerce and science until the turns increases.)

Compare the lowest value (or exact amount if available) to the full cost for the % devaluation.

[vmxa1]

Map size is 240 for Std, 320 for Large 400 for Huge.
Cost factor is 10 for the three lowest levels, 9 for Mon, 8 for Emp, 7 for Demi, 6 for Deity and 4 for Sid.

I will take a look at the one you mentioned.

The slider only tells you how many beakers you will generate. Times the number of turns give a rough count, but it is not the exact count (I don't think).

[vmxa1]

The number of civs in the game is an direct function for the human. As it goes down (only way it can go) the cost of tech goes down as well.

The number that know a tech and you know is an invrse function. The more you have the lower the cost to you.

[Cort Haus]

The T162 ToE Plan

The original estimates were recorded here .

The following model makes all sorts of assumptions, but we have to start somewhere.

We know Banking will take us 3 turns.
Chem will take us 6 turns at current rates, but will fall to 5 as GoW/ND will surely get it before us.
By the time we finish Chemistry we will have another ~ 40 Scpt from Uni's in EotS and Arashi, and three post-aqua boom towns.
Physics needs 1536, and 310 Scpt can do that in 5 turns.
ToG needs 1632, needing 6 turns

So 19 turns to ToG and Newton -which times well with a 20-turn build in Tempest starting next turn if we want that.
If we get Copernicus and Newton at this time, that's another 50 Scpt and more aquas coming in, totalling say 380 Scpt.
This leaves Magnetism (1632) in 5 turns and Metallurgy (If we have to research) it in four turns, hitting the modern era in 29 turns with 380 scpt.

Steam (2880) could then be completed in 8 turns, Electricity (3360) in 9 turns, Medicine (2400) in 7 turns and Scientific Method in 7 turns.
Total (without Industrialisation (2880 in 8 turns)) = 8 + 9 + 7 + 7 = 31 turns.

So by these calculations, with no trading or devaluations except Chemistry and Metallurgy, we can get Scientific Method in 60 turns from now, (adding another 8 turns if we want Industrialisation on the way) and 23 turns from discovering Steam.

[Cort Haus]

T168 Revised ToE plan

What's changed is that now, T182, we only have 3 techs to research to reach the next era. We can do Physics in 4 turns, burning some money (-76gpt, total ~ 300g) at 80% sci, but we can do Magnetism & ToG in 5 turns each at 70% @-30gpt ~ 300g and still have 100g plus 300g from GoW on the Physics deal.

So, 14 turns till the Industrial Era. 8 turns less that the original estimate

Add the 31 turns to Sci Meth from the above model is 45 turns.
If we allocate Tempest's mines to the shield-starved OG and WW, and put it on a Palace prebuild it drops to 43 turns.

So, slowing Tempest right down could see it as a ToE prebuild, with 85s on the board.

However, if we go ahead and suceed in putting Newton in there in 15 turns, that leaves 30 turns at 21spt = 630 shields. Very nice, and no need for rails.

If we were to trade for a modern tech, or if Lego build Copernicus before us, then Tempest could be the prebuild for ToE, otherwise Tempest starts it after Newton.

The Hoover prebuild is a lot more tricky. We only have one large shield-store, but EotS could build into the GLib up to 400 shields, needing another 400 for the Hoov. If we got Industrialisation from somewhere there might be the Uni Suff available fro the Hoov.

[Arrian]

9 turns until Newton's in Tempest. We are 6-7 turns from the Industrial Age.

Given our current output, plus the boost we will get in 8-9 turns with 2 science wonders completing (providing we get them, of course), does your estimate of 31 turns to Sci Meth hold? Even if it does, we may be able to trade a bit and get there even faster. But let's say 38 turns to SM for now.

So in 9 turns, Tempest starts prebuilding @ 21spt. 38-9 = 29. 29 turns * 21spt = 609. And that's not counting boosting production via rails if we have coal.

Where is Hoover going, though? Do we maybe have a better place for a ToE prebuild (EotS?), allowing Tempest to do Hoover (factory first, then long prebuild)?

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

31 turns is too high now. I think we can do Steam in 6 - we should manage around 420bpt. We could probably include Indust and get to ToE around the same time. We're getting Magnetism in 4, and perhaps ToG in 4 too.

[asleepathewheel]

what are the two techs we would take from ToE?

I assumed previously that it would be atom theory and electronics, but it might be more prudent to wait until we are finished with the hoover prebuild to discover it.

I think we should take atom theory and rep. parts, for the worker boost and to see if we have rubber. If we don't have rubber, then we can detour to nationalism (hopefully by then devalued) after we get electronics.

[Cort Haus]

Good point. The usual two-step goes without saying in SP, but if the Hoov prebuild is behind anyway, knowing where the rubber is before Electronics could be valuable. I can just imagine see some rubber on south Bob but none at home.

It would be assumed that we'd take Electronics, but if the others were at war, raising cash, and didn't have Electricity they wouldn't know that we'd got Rep Parts until it was too late, and give up on Hoover.

[Arrian]

Where is Hoover going? EotS?

Is 420bpt with or without the science wonders, Cort?

If our expected output is 420/turn, that's Steam in 7, Medicine in 6, Electricity in 8, and Sci Method in 6. 27 turns, give or take.

Using the numbers you posted above, we would need to put out 480bpt to get Steam in 6. 480bpt gets Medicine in 5, and Electricity in 7, Sci Method in 6 (?). That would be 24 turns to Sci Method.

There is little point in going that fast, however, since our ToE prebuild (in Tempest) won't be ready for another 38 turns. Hmm. That's a long time.

Maybe we need to consider dumping Newton's in Tempest in favor of a more aggressive ToE prebuild.

-Arrian