by now....

[zeit]

I have to say I'm quite excited with this idea- I Vox has some 2-3 galleys, with one more, they probably have what they need to take Yonder Isle, if they want to, and if Lego won't veto...

I'm sure Beta will like the idea- GoW and Vox never liked each other too much, but perhaps Lego won't allow this- we'll have to contact them first.

[Shiber]

I'm not sure we want to talk to Lego first...
Vox might agree but think that Lego will not approve, and so, do it without Lego being aware of their decision, hoping that they will approve it retroactively when they see that the result of the broadening of the Lego-Vox empire is a positive one. If we inform Lego ourselves, we eliminate that option.

[Velociryx]

Indeed you are, Master Shiber!

As to the way this thing needs to play out....we cannot contact Lego first, else they would nix the whole idea before it even got off the ground.

I would prefer to at least explore the idea via unofficial channels....if they bite, then of course, the only proper way to proceed would be through official diplomatic venues.

For now though, I prefer the less structured approach of just talking.

Beta was my "secret contact" inside Vox at the beginning of their war....the one who contacted me just before we blasted them off the map (literally).

His contact came too late to save his Kingdom the first time, but that relationship...that rapport is still there, and could be used to our advantage in the here and now, both to mend some fences, and to help ensure that if Lego gets involved, it will be on our side (in support of their vassal), rather than against us (which I think we can all agree that we don't need).

Thus, the first step is the public posting of this letter or something very like it, to gage their reaction to it.

If positive, then we proceed, by me contacting Beta and talking about mending fences.

From there....if we have to fund the rush building of a boat or two to the cause, I assume that no one would have terribly many objections?

-=Vel=-

[zeit]

I'm sorry- a bit tired after a night with the guys at the bar- I actually did mean we should bring it as a preliminary idea to Vox before we discuss this further- because there's a decent chance (I believe) that Vox is simply bound against declaring wars on someone without Lego's approval.

I didn't mean we should contact Lego about this- this would obviously screw things up...

[Velociryx]

Further, since Vox is not currently AT war with anyone, they can load troops on ALL the ships they have, without fear of being attacked (and why should they fear attack on the high seas? No one would dare attack Vox with Lego watching).

So...they can sail the full way to the island, unimpeded.

Unload and deliver their surprise (which might just throw the armies of our enemies into dissaray for a turn or two as they try and decide what to do).

From there...we wing it...

-=Vel=-

[notyoueither]

I agree with this back channel initiative. There is nothing to lose so long as you propose it as personal thoughts. If they bite, then we can seal it officially post haste.

One thing though...

Just as Lego extended a protective arm around the Voxians, so too, do we now offer that same protection to Spain, in hopes of not only helping her throw off this heinous attack against her sovereignty, but also to prosecute the war in such a way that Spanish strength returns to a level greater than it was previous to the attack, so that Spain may never again fear her enemies, and stand on her own, not as a vassal of Stormia (as some have nonsensically claimed), but as a proud, free, independent nation as is her right.

Who has said that RP is our vassal? If they did, would not our acknowledgement of the 'nonsensical claim' not lend it credence? Do not deny what is not seriously charged.

So far, no one outside of RP and we should have any clue as to the full details of our arrangement with RP. To all others, it looks like we went to the aid of RP to gain an ally who welcomed us to Bob in the face of Xenophobia in other camps. It is a convincing position.

The fact that we fight on when Spain is in such shape, and not of too much aid to us in staying on Bob, would obviously be due to our distaste for abandoning a friend once made.

[notyoueither]

I would replace the above quoted passage with this one.

Just as Lego extended a protective arm around the Voxians, so too, do we now offer that same protection to Spain, in hopes of not only helping her throw off this heinous attack against her sovereignty, but also to prosecute the war in such a way that Spanish strength returns to a level greater than it was previous to the attack, so that Spain may never again fear her enemies, and stand on her own as a proud, free, independent nation as is her right.

It simply cuts the reference to vassalage.

[Velociryx]

Outstanding, NYE, and excellent points! Watch for a second "unauthorized" post coming to a forum near you!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

....and so the back-channel initiative begins....I cannot say with any certainty what the outcome will be, but worst case, nothing happens, in which case, we have lost nothing.

Best case, we shall find the whole world united with us against those who would seek Spain's destruction, and that would be a fine outcome indeed....

-=Vel=-

[notyoueither]

It will be interesting, to say the least.

[DeepO]

Vel, one thing I really like about you is that you're a bit of a dreamer... I for one don't believe for a minute that the world is going to turn against GoW-ND (the eveil empire, so to speak)... it is as said before, most people have made this game into a 'let's beat the strat forum' contest. Please try, but I don't think Lego or Vox would leave us the chance of gaining more support, certainly now for the outside world it would seem that RP has turned its coat, and is on our side now (which used to be very different).

I wish you luck, but I remain very sceptical

DeepO

[Shiber]

Vel, you're doing a great job in the public forum.
You know, the man who was probably Israel's best representative at the U.N. was an author, and he was ****ing awesome! He was the Mohammed Ali of diplomacy, to say the least.
I think we should all step aside and let Vel do all the work in the public forum for now. If it doesn't work out then we can change our policy, but in the meantime it seems beneficial.

[Velociryx]

Thanks guys, I mean it! And yep....that would be me....always the dreamer.

Oh, it's entirely possible (and perhaps even likely) that nothing tangible will come of this, but until we know for certain, may I say that it has been tremendous fun watching our enemies fall all over themselves trying to short-circuit my arguments! I'm enjoying that aspect of it very much!

And they are ironclad arguments.

I do not predict that ND/GoW responses in the public fora will present anything at all in the way of curve balls or traps that will trip me up. I will certainly be on guard against them, but the facts as they are at the present time speak compellingly for themselves....I'm just the hammer driving those points home right now....

-=Vel=-

[Shiber]

Vel,
You just keep outdoing yourself. The latest post ("Spite and Malice") is brilliant.
So why am I even commenting, other than to give you a much-deserved virtual pat in the back? Well, GoW deserves all this, I have no doubt. But ND have been very calm, rational and mature most of the time (at least the members of ND that post in the public thread, which IIRC makes two of them). I wouldn't include them in the same group of haters as GoW is in.

[Velociryx]

Thank ya! Got my diplomatic guns firing full tilt now! And thank you for bringing that point out, re: ND being of a different category than GoW.....would have been more fitting had our opponents been GoW and RP, but....that's not the way it shook out....nonetheless, as that thread developes (I've noted that Nooooobody has commented there yet....not that I was particularly surprised)....but when the comments come, I shall make it a point to focus it squarely on GoW....

-=Vel=-