RP 10bc situation

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Theseus
Well, f*cking hell then, Pamplona is looking pretty!

Yeah, it is. I didn't remember them having 6 pikes there already, I thought that we were laying a GoW fueled trap. It would take a lot of firepower to blow down 6 pikes, and ansars aren't that effective at it. I would be more worried if it were riders out there, but as they are tied up...

[Theseus]

Hmmm... how do we make sure ND goes for Pamplona with everything they've got?

[notyoueither]

Damn. Trying to plan from screen shots sucks.

More moved into Pamplona on foot from between there and NM. That is where the 6 come from.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Theseus
Hmmm... how do we make sure ND goes for Pamplona with everything they've got?

Indeed. Doubtful they would go for it now. will they risk attacking Z? will they risk not attacking z? They are in a pretty good spot at z-across a river and in a forest. not good to attack. Not good to attack from either, but..

What would you do?

I don't honestly know what I would do. Maybe send in a wave of ansars to pillage everything? Cut the roads to Zaragoza? Then catapult them for a while. They can't really go south, as its all mountains and hills,a nd the targets aren't that great until they could make it to barcelona. They could attack salamanca, I guess, but their ansars would be stuck on the mountain for a turn and then be marooned in Salamanca, far from defensive units. Cutting that road with the spear was a great move, BTW. for several reasons.

When will ND give up? Its already over for them.

[Arrian]

If I'm ND I'd hit Zaragosa asap, unless I thought that I could use my 3-move Ansars to pillage irrigated tiles to starve it back to size 6 (which I don't think is the case).

So I think they should attack Z.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

If they still have some Ansars left, they would be better of cutting towards the South. They know it will be poorly defended...

DeepO

[notyoueither]

RP turn chat.

Session Start: Wed Jul 23 20:33:38 2003
Session Ident: #MilOps
[20:33] * Now talking in #MilOps
[20:33] * Topic is 'Wait for the Mil Leaders to arrive...'
[20:33] * Set by Arnelos on Wed Jul 23 20:08:59
[20:33] *ArnAWAY* Togas said "brb"
[20:33] *notyoueit* ok
[20:33] * ArnAWAY is now known as ArnIDLE
[20:34] *notyoueit* man, did i get grilled by gow
[20:34] *ArnIDLE* Nuke is checking to see if hte channel is really secret (he's doing a search)
[20:34] *ArnIDLE* how was the grilling?
[20:34] * NukWinter has joined #MilOps
[20:34] *notyoueit* have him look to see if he can spot where i am
[20:34] *NukWinter* I checked and no problems ons ecurity taht I could find
[20:34] *ArnIDLE* ok, good
[20:34] *NukWinter* What is teh command to search for nick anyway?
[20:35] *notyoueit* hah ha! someone else is using nye
[20:35] *NukWinter* Lemme check nye
[20:35] *ArnIDLE* doh
[20:35] *notyoueit* that could misdirect
[20:36] *ArnIDLE* so how was the grilling?
[20:36] *NukWinter* brb
[20:36] * NukWinter has left #MilOps
[20:36] * NukWinter has joined #MilOps
[20:36] *notyoueit* i am medium on one side
[20:36] *NukWinter* notyoueit is notyoueith@h24-86-76-127.ed.shawcable.net * Not You
[20:36] *notyoueit* rare on the other
[20:36] *NukWinter* notyoueit using *.undernet.org The Undernet Underworld
[20:36] *NukWinter* notyoueit End of /WHOIS list.
[20:36] *NukWinter* -
[20:36] *NukWinter* no cahnnel inof
[20:36] *NukWinter* info
[20:37] *notyoueit* they did not flip me
[20:37] *notyoueit*
[20:37] *NukWinter*
[20:37] *ArnIDLE* lol
[20:38] *notyoueit* i blamed it all on nd and their xenophobia
[20:38] *notyoueit* nd makes it easy to do that
[20:38] *NukWinter* don´t do it,
[20:38] *NukWinter* they may feel offended
[20:38] *NukWinter* and bleed over you
[20:39] *notyoueit* nothing offensive, nw
[20:39] *ArnIDLE* go on
[20:39] *notyoueit* just told rp that we feelt we could not cooperate with nd, and that we felt it best to block them
[20:39] *notyoueit* sorry, told gow
[20:39] *ArnIDLE* right
[20:39] *notyoueit* did bf post log of our chat last night?
[20:40] *ArnIDLE* yes, I believe so
[20:40] *notyoueit* good.
[20:40] *NukWinter* gotta go
[20:40] *NukWinter* bye
[20:40] *ArnIDLE* I might have skimmed it... but I've read a lot in the past 24 hours
[20:40] *notyoueit* we do not want to conceal that gow and nd approached us about helping finish rp off.
[20:40] * NukWinter has quit IRC (Quit)
[20:40] *notyoueit* do you have any questions about that?
[20:41] *ArnIDLE* not really
[20:41] *ArnIDLE* we sorta already knew/suspected that
[20:41] *notyoueit* ok. good
[20:41] *ArnIDLE* based upon some things GoW said a while back
[20:41] *notyoueit* you would not believe their stance on that
[20:41] *ArnIDLE* GoW isn't very good at hiding what they're up to
[20:41] *notyoueit* heh. good
[20:41] *notyoueit* have you guys been in touch with them? privately?
[20:42] *ArnIDLE* We knew/suspected about their army coming south for some time now... only thing we couldn't figure out was FOR SURE whether it was to be used against us or ND
[20:42] *ArnIDLE* We've been in touch with GoW privately until they declared war... since then, only contact has been with Unortho via personal PMs over other stuff or MZ in the ISDG chat
[20:42] *notyoueit* that is still not clear, to be honest.
[20:43] *notyoueit* the way they dither so
[20:43] *notyoueit* i suspect they may have an unknown agenda
[20:43] *ArnIDLE* We still believe they intend to backstab ND
[20:44] *notyoueit* i think so too. they do not say that to us though. that way they have real communications to pass on to nd
[20:44] *ArnIDLE* the problem is that they're too afraid to actually DO IT until ND loses some portion of their army to RP
[20:44] *notyoueit* we cannot blow their game
[20:44] *notyoueit* we are not acting
[20:44] *ArnIDLE* huh?
[20:45] *ArnIDLE* run that by me again so I understand what you're getting at
[20:45] *notyoueit* when they speak to us, it is bellicose
[20:45] *ArnIDLE* really?
[20:45] *ArnIDLE* (sarcasm)
[20:45] *notyoueit* we respond as if we are responding to a real threat
[20:45] *ArnIDLE* right
[20:45] *notyoueit* they then have completely realistic communications to relay to nd to make them feel better
[20:45] *ArnIDLE* Their diplomacy toward us has been filled with bellicose PM's since we first made contact...
[20:45] *notyoueit* and we cannot blow their cover through a slip up
[20:46] *ArnIDLE* if you guys responded as you naturally would, that's a good idea
[20:46] *ArnIDLE* the last thing I want to do is make GoW suspicious of what is really going on
[20:46] *ArnIDLE* I want them to stay "on plan", the plan they've had for ages
[20:47] *notyoueit* i agree
[20:47] *ArnIDLE* You see... we were discussing this before... GoW would have had a better shot at the game if they'd used large numbers of horsemen to attack ND a very long time ago... they didn't because they were "waiting for their UU" and the "plan"
[20:47] *notyoueit* we are giving them every opportunity to stay out of war with us
[20:48] *notyoueit* but now, nd is in war with us, and that could suit their plan very well
[20:48] *ArnIDLE* The plan, we believe, is to weaken RP and ND with an RP-ND war, then conquer ND
[20:48] *ArnIDLE* right
[20:48] *notyoueit* that would be a good plan
[20:48] *ArnIDLE* We have to make them believe that their plan is going even BETTER than they expected
[20:48] *notyoueit* our presence disrupts that
[20:49] *ArnIDLE* until you guys actually attack GoW forces or something, I want GoW to believe you're only here to fight ND
[20:49] * BigFree has joined #MilOps
[20:49] *ArnIDLE* That will encourage GoW to backstab ND... which will make the two of them easier to defeat down the road... they still have their GA's
[20:49] *notyoueit* cool. that is the direction we are moving in already
[20:50] *notyoueit* it is much more convenient if we deal with the arab hordes in Spain first
[20:50] *ArnIDLE* I mean... if we can get the OTHER alliance to be bickering with each other and bitter over a backstab while we remain united... that GREATLY improves our chances
[20:51] *notyoueit* very much. and we have to avoid lego getting too nervous
[20:51] *notyoueit* hi, bigfree
[20:51] *ArnIDLE* the thing we need Lego to do is just stay out
[20:52] *notyoueit* true
[20:52] *BigFree* yo
[20:52] *ArnIDLE* which shouldn't be THAT hard... Lego is already inclined to stay out
[20:52] *BigFree* just getting ready to load up the save
[20:52] *notyoueit* ok
[20:52] *ArnIDLE* well... I need to go grab some food... I'll be back in here in a bit... going idle/away for a wee bit
[20:52] *ArnIDLE* hope Togas comes back soon
[20:52] *notyoueit* posted in our forum that we are gathering here
[20:52] *ArnIDLE* ok
[20:53] *ArnIDLE* BF - will do that in our forum?
[20:53] *ArnIDLE* I gotta go
[20:53] *BigFree* yes
[20:53] *ArnIDLE* ok, thanks
[20:53] *ArnIDLE* bbl
[20:53] * ArnIDLE is now known as ArnAWAY
[20:53] *notyoueit* grabbing my diner
[20:55] * Nuclearis has joined #MilOps
[20:55] * Nuclearis has left #MilOps
[20:58] * asleepath has joined #MilOps
[20:58] *notyoueit* hmmmm. chef salad...
[20:59] *asleepath* hey guys, has this party gotten started yet?
[20:59] *notyoueit* hi sleepy. not yet.
[21:00] *asleepath* great
[21:00] *notyoueit* bf. what does it look like?
[21:00] * TogasIDLE has joined #MilOps
[21:00] *BigFree* not too bad
[21:00] *notyoueit* allo
[21:00] * TogasIDLE is now known as Togas
[21:00] *Togas* hello
[21:00] *notyoueit* can you see any riders to the north?
[21:01] *Togas* none
[21:01] *notyoueit* excellent!
[21:01] *notyoueit* toledo is saved
[21:01] *notyoueit* and pamplona too
[21:01] *Togas* screenshots have been posted at the same URL as last time. Just change it from 30east.jpg (and west) to 10east.jpg
[21:01] *notyoueit* k
[21:01] *Togas* I'll let my mil guys figure out how we're going to stop ND.
[21:02] *notyoueit* what were those urls, again?
[21:02] *Togas* They have Leon, have it's culture to protect their Ansars in the city.
[21:02] *asleepath* ah, just what I was toask
[21:03] * SMC_GK has joined #MilOps
[21:03] *SMC_GK* hi
[21:03] *Togas* http://www.geocities.com/tom_ogas/10east.jpg
[21:03] *notyoueit* thanks
[21:03] *Togas* just replace with 10west.jpg for the other shot
[21:03] *SMC_GK* I wish to appologize if my little BS story to Unortho about the city transfer caused any problems.
[21:04] * SMC_GK is now known as GK
[21:06] *notyoueit* problems, gk?
[21:07] * Aeson has joined #MilOps
[21:07] *notyoueit* allo
[21:07] *notyoueit* screenies coming up
[21:07] *Aeson* hello
[21:07] *Togas* I'll be AFK a bit, but checking on this screen. Need to do a few things around the house.
[21:07] *BigFree* Togas
[21:07] *BigFree* go to RP channel
[21:09] *Aeson* How many units are in Pamplona at this point?
[21:10] *notyoueit* thread posted
[21:10] *BigFree* we can have 5 Pikes 1 horsemen, and 1 spear there this turn
[21:11] *notyoueit* or you can have more
[21:11] *BigFree* yes, the units in Inchon will be there when ND attacks, if the timing issues are correct.
[21:11] *GK* notyoueit - shiber mentioned it in a letter to RP. I don't think it caused any, but just in case if someones feathers were ruffled that I just on the spot made up the story that we traded the soon to be lost cities for some gold and tech (without any previous deal violations on anybodies parts - which was a concern of theirs)
[21:12] *notyoueit* np, gk
[21:12] *notyoueit* nothing went too far, yet
[21:13] *Aeson* The problem I see is that Ansars from ND (ones not seen yet, from Marlowa) could be in Leon right now
[21:13] *notyoueit* that was shiber's intent. to not give reason for gow to look too cloosely at any new angles.
[21:13] *notyoueit* yes, aeson
[21:13] *notyoueit* with the way gow moved though, toledo could be given to us this turn, and gow cannot get there before we can. that puts a lot more bodies in pamplona
[21:14] *Aeson* ND couldn't have a whole lot of other Ansars, but 4-5 wouldn't be out of the question
[21:14] *Aeson* They have 2 S of Santiago?
[21:15] *notyoueit* lokks like it, ready to make a dash at vigo
[21:15] *Aeson* Probably lost 1 in the fighting (or retreated)... so 6 of the original 10 could be in Leon, and at least 1 at Leon 7
[21:16] *Aeson* Any of the units at Zaragoza 4 Ansars?
[21:17] *notyoueit* i was just going to ask what was in that stack
[21:18] *notyoueit* away for a bit. testing something...
[21:20] *Togas* none of the units at zaragoza 4 are ansars
[21:20] *Togas* they have 2 pikes and 4 inf there
[21:20] *Togas* they have 2 ansars 2 of Santiago
[21:21] *Togas* one of the Ansars at Santiago 2 is wounded
[21:21] *Togas* the other is elite, full strength
[21:21] *Togas* There are 6 units at Zaragoza 4 ... 1 pike and 1 inf are regular, the other pike and 3 inf are vets
[21:21] *Aeson* Thanks Togas
[21:23] *Togas* note: the 2 workers you see are, we believe, Spanish captured workers
[21:23] *Togas* they were a piece of the worker wall we had previously prepared to use on the west coast, then decided against and tried to pull them out thru Leon.
[21:24] *BigFree* Yes, those workers were near Vigo
[21:24] *Aeson* From what we can tell, GoW has consolidated their stack at Bilbao 77
[21:24] *Togas* I believe they were in Leon
[21:24] *Aeson* ouch
[21:25] *Aeson* did you rush in Leon too?
[21:25] *Togas* did not rush there
[21:25] *Aeson*
[21:25] * ruby_mase has joined #MilOps
[21:26] *BigFree* *Aeson* From what we can tell, GoW has consolidated their stack at Bilbao 77
[21:26] *BigFree* if so, they can't attack for two turns yet
[21:26] * WhiteBand has joined #MilOps
[21:26] *Aeson* yep
[21:26] *BigFree* hm
[21:27] *Aeson* which would mean our troops can be in Toledo
[21:27] *BigFree* yes
[21:27] *BigFree* we should gift Toledo this turn
[21:27] *BigFree* after we move troops in
[21:27] *Aeson* and GoW hasn't shown any will to attack us yet
[21:27] *Aeson* It would give you quite a stack in Pamplona
[21:28] *BigFree* even if GoW attack Bilbao, it would be two turns from now to attack Toledo
[21:28] *BigFree* We, RP, need to move our Galley to Inchon too
[21:29] *BigFree* that will get transported to?
[21:29] *Aeson* How about your Horse in Pamplona, do you think you'd want to try to hit one of their Ansars in Leon?
[21:29] *BigFree* or will it be disbanded
[21:29] *BigFree* Good idea
[21:29] *Aeson* It should show up somewhere along your E coast
[21:29] *BigFree* 2 attack against 2 def
[21:30] *Aeson* Slightly in ND's favor, but nowhere near as badly as if you defend with it. Thing to keep in mind is you can have Chivalry in 3 more turns IIRC
[21:30] *Togas* I say we hold onto the horse and hope to upgrade him.

[notyoueither]

[21:31] *BigFree* Togas,we need to attack with it
[21:31] *BigFree* the cost ratios is heavily in our favor
[21:31] *Togas* in 3 turns he becomes a 4/3/2
[21:31] *BigFree* if we win
[21:31] *Aeson* If you're giving us Toledo to defend, you should be able to guarantee 3 Knights once you get Chivalry
[21:31] *BigFree* yes, plus a **** load of units to counter attck with
[21:32] *Togas* and we will have to save 240g for the upgrades.
[21:32] *Aeson* Horsemen builds right now might be a good idea in some sites
[21:32] *BigFree* lets go on offensive and maybe throw them offa bit
[21:32] *Aeson* We may be able to help with the gold
[21:32] *Togas* let's wait for Dejon to determine if we attack with the horse or not.
[21:32] *ruby_mase* lets hope they don't do too much pillaging in the next three turns around Pamplona
[21:33] *ruby_mase* need that gold for the upgrades
[21:33] *ruby_mase* we've already lost 10gpt+ IIRC
[21:34] *Togas* losing 3 cities in a turn will do that.
[21:35] *notyoueit* confirmed. the units blip emmediately that we accept. they are there before nd moves again
[21:35] *Aeson* the other thing is Vigo. Reg Pikes unfortified don't stand much chance against Ansars
[21:36] *Aeson* even fortified the numbers are bad, 35%
[21:36] *Togas* city has 1 fort pike, the unfort guy was just built.
[21:36] *Aeson* he can fort if he doesn't move
[21:37] *Togas* we can add in 2-3 more units, but they'd be unfort.
[21:37] *GK* Oh **** - I was just contacted to join up for the conquest beta!!!! Trip came through when he said they were looking for more people and was wondering if I would like to join in... damn.
[21:37] *Aeson* then you have a spear to upgrade, and 2 more reg pikes that can move in (unfort)
[21:38] *Aeson* given the situation, it isn't good odds to really even hurt ND if they hit the city
[21:38] *Togas* we had intended on keeping a pike or two on the iron ... or is that pretty much a pointless endevour?
[21:38] *Aeson* On mountains your Pikes can hurt ND
[21:38] *Aeson* or in cities with Walls and cats
[21:40] *Togas* brb
[21:40] *Aeson* in Vigo, it might be a lost cause. I think they'd take the city with 1 or 2 losses (which both have 50% retreat odds).
[21:41] *notyoueit* if they send enough strength to vigo to take it, they will take losses, and will spread themselves out.
[21:41] *notyoueit* that would open them a little to the 2nd wave crashing into leon
[21:42] *Aeson* that's just it nye, I don't think they take losses unless we get lucky
[21:42] *Aeson* and we can't hit Leon in the meantime
[21:42] *BigFree* I think we move all units around Vigo into Vigo and see what happens.
[21:42] *GK* looking at the save, they cannot take vigo and hope to remain in viable formation for a while.
[21:43] *Aeson* We can't counterattack Vigo at all
[21:43] *BigFree* right
[21:43] *Aeson* we can't get to leon even, just 1 Horse
[21:43] *notyoueit* i am a bit concerned with the prospect of ansars running and gunning down that road the snatch up the cities on the south coast
[21:43] *Aeson* so they get turns to heal up
[21:43] *Aeson* So we block the road?
[21:44] *Aeson* cut it?
[21:44] *notyoueit* we hold vigo
[21:44] *BigFree* yes
[21:44] *BigFree* we can have 3 pikes and a spear there
[21:44] *notyoueit* will nd want to spread out, or will they brace for pamplona and whatever they suspext we might do?
[21:44] *notyoueit* if we invite them to vigo, they will take it.
[21:45] *Aeson* I don't know
[21:45] *notyoueit* and then get ideas of pillaging down that road
[21:45] *Aeson* Show a Pike, it's as good as 5 units.
[21:45] *GK* I would keep the pike on the iron - it will make them think we are dependant.
[21:45] *Aeson* GoW can't investigate for ND before ND has to act
[21:45] *notyoueit* true
[21:46] *notyoueit* vox or lego could
[21:46] *Aeson* yes
[21:46] *notyoueit* do either have embassiesd?
[21:46] *GK* vox I doubt would. Lego.....
[21:46] *Togas* back
[21:46] *Aeson* wb Togas
[21:47] *notyoueit* is dejon due sometime?
[21:47] *Aeson* What are Spain's thoughts on city liability? meaning, if you can keep your troops alive at the expense of losing Vigo, is it worth it?
[21:48] *Togas* even if we keep our troops alive, it will take them far too long to move to join the rest of the army
[21:48] *Aeson* Vigo should be the last one you risk losing
[21:48] *Togas* and they could get picked off between here and there
[21:48] *Aeson* What about gifting Vigo to us?
[21:48] *GK* Temp - as long as we can get iron, sure. Perminantly - not an option. IMHO
[21:49] *Aeson* with 4 of the units, the other moves to pillage mountain roads
[21:49] *Togas* We could do that, but ND would sack it.... however, it would get our pikes back to us
[21:49] *Aeson* we would probably disband Vigo in that case
[21:49] *Aeson* but not sure... losing too many cities will hurt with WW
[21:49] *Togas* it's a sad thought indeed, and it will give ND only one direction to charge
[21:49] *Aeson* yah
[21:49] *Togas* one thing I like about Vigo is that they have to turn around and deal with it first
[21:49] *BigFree* Lets keep Vigo
[21:50] *BigFree* They will have to lose a few units to get it
[21:50] *Aeson* Pamplona and Zaragoza are the buzzsaws
[21:50] *GK* purchase the walls in vigo?
[21:50] *Aeson* it works best if they attack there first
[21:50] *Aeson* they don't get built in time, unless you guys are still in the build queue
[21:50] *Togas* Even if we buy walls, they'll attack before the walls go up
[21:50] * asleepath has quit IRC (Quit)
[21:51] *Aeson* Odds in Vigo are you win 1 out of 3 battles
[21:51] *GK* just started this turn - 4 turn build.
[21:51] *Aeson* 6-7 battles total
[21:51] * asleepath has joined #MilOps
[21:52] *Aeson* and ND has 50% retreat odds
[21:52] *notyoueit* vigo is on a hill, yes?
[21:52] *GK* no
[21:52] *notyoueit* damn
[21:52] *Togas* wide open
[21:52] *BigFree* I think ND willnot attack this turn
[21:53] *Aeson* Expected would be 1 dead Ansar, 1 retreated Ansar, various state of wounded Ansars left... RP losses are 5 reg Pikes
[21:53] *BigFree* not any city except Zara
[21:53] *Aeson* Why?
[21:53] *notyoueit* aeson, you assume they will attack it.
[21:53] *notyoueit* rp could abandon it, what would that do?
[21:53] *BigFree* they may have had bad luck againt Leon
[21:53] *Aeson* force them to put their Ansars where we can kill them
[21:53] *notyoueit* how?
[21:53] *Aeson* instead of where we cant
[21:54] *notyoueit* they can still ride south
[21:54] *BigFree* they might lose half gainst Vigo though
[21:54] *Aeson* Yes, and then we can flank them
[21:54] *BigFree* or they may go toward the South
[21:54] *GK* you think they will attack Zara - I wouldn't. I would march towards Salamanca.
[21:54] *Aeson* ND loses it's core, RP loses the small cities in the S
[21:54] *notyoueit* aeson, they will garrison vigo, if they take it.
[21:54] *notyoueit* that helps too, no?
[21:54] *BigFree* Salamanca is a hard reach, over Mountains
[21:55] *notyoueit* and if they do not take it, that helps more, yes?
[21:55] *notyoueit* i just noticerd, salamanca is wide open
[21:55] *Aeson* it is
[21:55] *notyoueit* they could attack it this turn
[21:55] *GK* Salamanca is defended by a lone reg spear.
[21:55] *Aeson* yes, the spear has to pillage the mountain road
[21:56] *BigFree* they cant attack Salamnca over the mountains this turn?!
[21:56] *Aeson* the mountain is roaded
[21:56] *BigFree* the mountain is ours
[21:56] *Aeson* outside cultural borders
[21:56] *notyoueit* yes they can. the mountain road is no manes land one-third movement
[21:56] *GK* It will auto go bye bye - but so what - less money for us, more chance to cause general havic.
[21:56] *notyoueit* more ww for you as well
[21:57] *GK* true
[21:57] *Aeson* that will also give them access to attack Pamplona from Mountains
[21:57] *BigFree* damn, just notice the cultural borders
[21:57] *notyoueit* that spear is a reg. damned unfortunate
[21:57] *GK* and that position opens up the whole south without any chance of us doing much about that force.
[21:57] *notyoueit* true
[21:57] *Togas* within 3 tiles of Salamca is a vet pike
[21:57] *asleepath* I take it theres not a barracks in salamanca to upgrade that spear?
[21:57] *BigFree* we have a pike below Salmanca that can get there
[21:58] *Togas* he can make it to Salamanca this turn, but not the mtn pass
[21:58] *Togas* the spear will have to do it
[21:58] *BigFree* and Pikes in Pamplona can get there as well
[21:58] *BigFree* to Salmanca that is
[21:58] *GK* No - put on the hill at 7 to salamanca. don't let them get close enough to see our best defender is a reg spear.
[21:58] *notyoueit* would you rather risk pamplona, or lose a spear to take out that road?
[21:59] *notyoueit* maybe lose a spear.
[21:59] *Togas* lose the spear
[21:59] *notyoueit* nd may not be able to go in 54 directions at once
[21:59] *GK* if they go towards sal - it is lost. Put the pike on 7 to sal, then next turn fort on the mountain if they are not there.
[22:00] *GK* That blocks sal for easy attack.
[22:01] *GK* They are smart enough to try and keep their units in a mass - so if they go for sal - we cannot stop them. If they go towards vigo - it probably looses, but they get real bloody. If they go anywhere else, they will loose I suspect.
[22:03] *Togas* note: We have only 4 pikes, 6 inf, 1 cat in Zaragoza. It is possible to reinforce with 2 more pikes from Pampl or are we risking too much doing so?
[22:03] *notyoueit* if they catch that road, they have a second route to pamplona, and the south is open to them
[22:03] *Aeson* If you bring the units from Toledo (and/or Vigo) you can spare the Pikes.
[22:03] * ArnAWAY is now known as Arnelos
[22:04] *Aeson* GS has one condition on the Cats we are giving you, that they have at all times more units defending them than ND can attack with
[22:04] *Arnelos* 12How are things here? Can I get an update?
[22:04] *BigFree* We cant reach there in one tune anyways
[22:04] *BigFree* from either Toledo or Pamplona
[22:04] *BigFree* Zara is on its own for now
[22:05] *Togas* we can send 2 pikes, it'll take 2 turns, but if they go after Vigo this turn, Zaragoza could really use the reinforcements.
[22:05] *GK* True. I suspect that they will not attack Zar this turn as those pike and MI will have to cross a river first.
[22:05] *Togas* they will likely build the road at Zargoza 4-1 first, then attack with their 2nd wave
[22:05] *BigFree* ****, just noticed that the MI in Zaqra did not get built as expected beaue ND took some tiles away from us; it was one shiled shy of being built.
[22:05] *Togas* I know ...
[22:06] *Arnelos* 12can someone give me an update?
[22:06] *GK* how recent is their map of ours - do they know about that road south of vigo?
[22:06] *Togas* ND and GoW shouldn't know
[22:06] *BigFree* If we send to Pikes to Zara, they will just pick them off
[22:06] *Togas* they can be sent inside the FoW
[22:06] *GK* just different strat discussions about where ND will attack next.
[22:07] *Arnelos* thanks GK
[22:08] *Arnelos* 4Togas - I'm doing fam4 now (just so you know)
[22:08] *GK* OK - they think by taking leon that they probably have cut off our iron - they can have lego check this and know for sure. Now, vigo is either an unknown strong point waiting to attack them in the side, or it is something to be cleaned up later. What would you guys on GS think if it was you?
[22:10] *notyoueit* i would bypass it if i wanted to take you out. go for zaragoza and then pamplona
[22:10] *asleepath* I would deal with it later as well
[22:10] *GK* Toledo - are we willing to loose that silk - I just noticed, unless we cross the river next turn, that scout will pillage it in two turns and nothing we can do.
[22:10] *Aeson* They attacked Leon, which shows they are on a blitz IMO
[22:10] *BigFree* Agreed
[22:10] *Aeson* hopefully GoW investigated Pamplona this turn
[22:10] *asleepath* hopefully
[22:10] *Aeson* told them what you have in there, and they will hit it
[22:10] *Togas* when Toledo gets traded the silk vanishes anyhow
[22:10] *Togas* culture reverts back to 0
[22:10] *GK* Ditto. So, IMHO, they march on Sal or pamp....
[22:11] *Aeson* I think we just need to keep showing a Pike in Vigo
[22:11] *GK* oops - forgot. Thanks togas.
[22:11] *notyoueit* take out that road on the mountain, and they are left with one path
[22:11] *BigFree* Pmplona or Zar is my bet, after we pillage mountain road to Salmanca with Spear.
[22:11] *BigFree* CP
[22:11] *GK* river crossing... will he make it?
[22:12] *BigFree* yes
[22:12] *notyoueit* they may mop up zaragoza
[22:12] *BigFree* we have eng
[22:12] *Togas* we have eng this turn
[22:12] *GK* OK.
[22:12] *notyoueit* or try
[22:12] *BigFree* one of the two
[22:12] *Aeson* at least Z will cost them
[22:12] *notyoueit* but if they have intel from gow...
[22:12] *BigFree* now, do we counter in Zara this turn?
[22:12] *Togas* only their ansars can hit Z
[22:12] *BigFree* they have 4 MI next to Zara
[22:12] *notyoueit* they have mi too, don;t they?
[22:12] *Togas* well the others can, but they'll be attacking across a river
[22:13] *notyoueit* good
[22:13] *Togas* across a river, city walls, and size 7 bonuses
[22:13] *Aeson* it will be costly if they hit it
[22:13] *BigFree* the question is , should we counter now, even accoss a river
[22:13] *Togas* that stack isn't dangerous, the ansars are
[22:13] *notyoueit* the way they moved those just make sone think of an assault on zar, or they intend to sit there and defend vs counter attacks into thier core
[22:13] *BigFree* if we can damage the pikes, the MI will be open to us
[22:13] *Togas* I think we should save the counter attack for when they leave their ansars wounded in the open.
[22:14] *notyoueit* bf. too soon to ca
[22:14] *BigFree* if they take out raods prior to attacking, we may not ahve that luxery
[22:14] *Aeson* the Ansars are ND's lifeblood, without them they don't really pose any more threat
[22:14] *notyoueit* save your strength, wait for us to arrive.
[22:14] *notyoueit* then we sweep them out
[22:14] *BigFree* this may be our only chance at attacking with MI's
[22:14] *GK* If they attack only with ansars - we kill them next with our counter. If they cross the river and wait a turn, they will bleed like mad. Wait and see. That way we can if nothing else march them north and cause them to retreat if they start going to far south
[22:15] *Togas* let's not attack across a river against fortified pikes in a forest.
[22:15] *Aeson* MI's forted in Z have better than even chances against Ansars
[22:15] *BigFree* they are not fotified yet
[22:15] *BigFree* they just moved there
[22:15] *Togas* after this turn they will be
[22:15] *BigFree* thats my point
[22:15] *Aeson* they will be
[22:16] *Aeson* by the time ND can attack they are BF
[22:16] *Togas* when ND attacks, our Inf should have @4 defense.
[22:16] *notyoueit* bf may be speaking of the nd pikes
[22:16] *GK* If they fort - all they are doing is taking up space. Let them.
[22:16] *BigFree* true
[22:16] *Aeson* you'll have 58% odds in your favor with Vet Med Inf against Vet Ansars
[22:16] *BigFree* I am nye
[22:16] *Aeson* in Z
[22:16] *BigFree* Here's my view:
[22:17] * Arnelos is now known as ArnIDLE
[22:17] *BigFree* If they come in and only pillage roads for the nest turn or two, they take away our ability to counter with MI's, because they can retreat one tile away from a city after attacking it.
[22:18] *Togas* the roads allow their pikes to rush into their captured cities and hold them so their Ansars can continue the assault
[22:18] *Aeson* 43.6% against an unfortified Pike across the river on a Forest
[22:18] *BigFree* not bad
[22:18] *Aeson* They don't look to be pillaging
[22:18] *Togas* the roads are just as valuable to them as us
[22:19] *BigFree* only time will tell
[22:19] *GK* If they come in, then they are in and we counter next turn and kill them. They need some roads. They need them as much as we do.
[22:19] *Aeson* they are actually going to build roads it looks like
[22:19] *notyoueit* a pice of info you guys should know...
[22:19] *notyoueit* nd sent us a note saying that they would like to compensate us, and that they hope we will not have to fight
[22:19] *BigFree* Aeson, those workers were ours BTW
[22:19] *Togas* but they're going to use them to build a road.
[22:20] *BigFree* HAHA
[22:20] *notyoueit* we are responding with silence, or a vague 'it is being considered'
[22:20] *BigFree* nice
[22:20] * E_T has joined #MilOps
[22:20] *notyoueit* until they feel outnumbered and outmatched, they will move forward
[22:20] *E_T* Hello
[22:20] *Aeson* hello E T
[22:20] *BigFree* holy cow, its an ET
[22:20] *notyoueit* they will not pillage, they will seek to capture
[22:20] *Togas* Interesing question: If we give GS another city, and they take it, what would THAT mean to both ND and GS?
[22:20] *BigFree* I hope so nye

[notyoueither]

[22:21] *notyoueit* togas. we cannot do that
[22:21] *notyoueit* ww
[22:21] *Togas* true
[22:21] *notyoueit* they would just take it, they have proved that
[22:21] *Aeson* besides, GS is committed already to taking ND out
[22:21] *notyoueit* they are not cowering from a scrap
[22:21] *BigFree* yep 12:4)1
[22:21] *Aeson* GoW are..at least so far
[22:22] *E_T* What did ND say to you all, are they not wanting a fight with you?
[22:22] *notyoueit* please do not taunt gow on that
[22:22] *BigFree* LOL
[22:22] *BigFree* oh, we won't
[22:22] *Togas* I'm curious if they believe they might be able to pay GS for Santiago ... of if it's just a desperate attempt that they know won't work.
[22:22] *notyoueit* e_t. yes
[22:22] *GK* so far. I think they are waiting and playing the odds to see when the best time for them to come in and clean up all the scraps is.
[22:23] *E_T* Hey GK, long time, no see
[22:23] * Arnelos has joined #MilOps
[22:23] * Arnelos slaps ArnIDLE around a bit with a large trout
[22:23] *BigFree* GoW is the most opportunistic Team there is
[22:23] * Aeson nods
[22:23] *GK* Hi E_T
[22:23] * ArnIDLE has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[22:23] *Aeson* GoW may attack us next turn, if not, they are pretty much out of it
[22:23] *E_T* but being as opportunistic still won't get tehm sqwat in the end
[22:24] *E_T* If GoW is planning to back stab ND, then they want to make sure that ND is as faraway as possible before they do it
[22:24] *GK* So, if I was betting, GoW is going to go real slow and try to conserver forces as much as possible, that way they hope to mop us up as well as take on ND. Ashame it will not work.
[22:24] *BigFree* ET, they will get something in the end, but they will get it dry and hard in the END!
[22:25] *E_T* sounds like my kind of fun...
[22:25] *Aeson* but right now it's important not to provoke GoW any
[22:25] *BigFree* agreed
[22:25] *Togas* this is true
[22:25] *Aeson* GS has to provoke them with one more thing, and that should tell
[22:25] *BigFree* we just need to be silent
[22:25] *BigFree* or very reserved in our chats
[22:26] *notyoueit* thanks. appreciated.
[22:26] *BigFree* "we will go donw fighting" might be good too
[22:26] *notyoueit* if we have to actually fight them in the east, there is less we can send west
[22:26] *Aeson* yah, so when GS gets Toledo and denies GoW a ROP, we want them as calm as possible
[22:26] *Aeson*
[22:27] *notyoueit* true dat
[22:27] *Aeson* cause they are going to get mad
[22:27] *notyoueit* very
[22:27] *BigFree* after gifting you Toledo, we can go on an assault of our own in a few turns
[22:27] *notyoueit* in good time, bf
[22:27] *notyoueit* 10+ knights backing you up might be helpful
[22:27] *Aeson* Do you want to start building Horses to upgrade to Knights?
[22:28] *GK* expensive
[22:28] *Togas* but worth it.
[22:28] *Aeson* GS would probably help
[22:28] *BigFree* we will have 11 Pikes and 7 MI's in Pamplona
[22:28] *Aeson* it's better than GS cutting Iron roads to do the same
[22:28] *Togas* We can set Barcelona and a Madrid (when it returns) to knights
[22:28] *notyoueit* hey!
[22:28] *notyoueit* i just thought of something
[22:28] *Aeson* and 7 cats... which is a good ratio
[22:28] *notyoueit* to guard your treasury
[22:29] *BigFree* YES
[22:29] *notyoueit* you spend cash on ruses, etc
[22:29] *BigFree* we need to ruch Pike in Sal this turn
[22:29] *notyoueit* end of turn, send all gold to us, accepted
[22:29] *BigFree* good idea
[22:29] *notyoueit* we receive. send back to you accepted
[22:29] *Togas* not bad
[22:29] *Togas*
[22:29] *notyoueit* if they take a city, the cash is not there yet
[22:30] *Arnelos* 4hey... how do you find out what version of directx you are running?
[22:30] *notyoueit* too bad it doesn't work for us :/
[22:30] *GK* 104 to rush sal pike. we have 107
[22:30] *BigFree* gor for it
[22:30] *Aeson* what operating system Arnelos?
[22:30] *Arnelos* Win98SE
[22:30] *GK* Open up the direct x directory. There is a program that will do an analysis of your system.
[22:31] *GK* That is how I just got it.
[22:31] *BigFree* Togas, are we doing save now or what?
[22:31] *Aeson* Will you have enough for the short rush in NM next turn?
[22:31] *BigFree* yes
[22:31] *Togas* I had planned to wait until orders were finalized
[22:31] *Togas* then either play it late tonight or tomorrow morning.
[22:31] *BigFree* its only 64 to rush now
[22:31] *BigFree* and we make 63 per turn
[22:31] *GK* NM set to pike - in two. At + 63 per turn shouldn't be an issue.
[22:32] *Aeson* I think there is a control panel directx option
[22:32] *E_T* Arnie, go to windows/system folder, there is a Dxdiag program that will tell you all of that
[22:32] *Togas* I gave him instructions via PM
[22:32] *BigFree* Togas: Did dejon confiem being here tonihgt?
[22:32] *Togas* I have not heard from Dejon all day today :/
[22:33] *BigFree* hmm
[22:33] *Togas* Yes, a bit of a problem.
[22:33] *BigFree* lets not count on him then
[22:33] *Togas* I'm happy, however, with GK's analysis and advice.
[22:33] *BigFree* he's usually around early, not late
[22:33] *BigFree* me too
[22:33] *GK* 12:35 for me. I have to get up at 5:30 for work soon.
[22:34] *Togas* I may have GK do the orders -- just needs to make sure they jive with the 30bc orders
[22:34] *BigFree* ah
[22:34] *Togas* GK -- is it possible for you to do the orders, or is that too much of a hardship (too last minute?)
[22:34] *BigFree* he has to be up in 5 hours Togas
[22:35] *BigFree* we either wait or we play with what we have here
[22:35] *GK* I can, but I am not familiar with all the nitty gritty - ie Tolo trade this comming turn... and will need a hand.
[22:35] *Togas* I can handle the trades, the movement of the units overseas
[22:35] *notyoueit* what do you do with vigo and the troops there?
[22:35] *Togas* Vigo seems to be our biggest decision this turn
[22:35] *BigFree* Move all units into it and fortify
[22:36] *BigFree* give up the Iron
[22:36] *GK* Spear into vigo. All the pike on the iron stays there. The other pike into, then fort all units.
[22:36] *BigFree* GK, we dont need Iron
[22:36] *Togas* we need them to think we do
[22:36] *BigFree* we will get next turn from GS
[22:36] *GK* Let them think we do.
[22:36] *notyoueit* aeson pointed out that if they come for it, they win vs each pike at 65% if the pike is forted
[22:36] *BigFree* hmm, they will thin we need it for one city only thne
[22:37] *GK* Perceptions and deceptions.
[22:37] *notyoueit* so, if they come for it, you cannot stop them
[22:37] *Aeson* that means 5 dead RP units, 1 dead Ansar, and one retreated Ansar, average cost
[22:37] *notyoueit* but, if you leave one pike in it. they see pike
[22:37] *GK* true.
[22:37] *notyoueit* the others move to the mountain 2 3 of it
[22:38] *notyoueit* to dig you out of there, they losse 65%
[22:38] *GK* dijon posted last on poly at 15:50. doubt he knows about this chat.
[22:38] *notyoueit* and if they take vigo, we have a forward position from which a recapture can be mounted
[22:39] *notyoueit* it is something to think about
[22:39] *Togas*
[22:40] *notyoueit* ont the joint front.
[22:40] *notyoueit* you sobs dow on us
[22:40] *notyoueit*
[22:40] *notyoueit* take cats
[22:40] *GK* Vigo - they will hurt themselves if they take it. Fine, they can take it, but the time they need to heal is what will benifit us. I am more worried that they will strike fast toward sal.
[22:40] *notyoueit* go into inchon
[22:40] *Aeson* Giving us Toledo should give you enough units to hold Sal
[22:40] *Aeson* maybe rush walls there?
[22:40] *notyoueit* offer peace, luxes, inchon, toledo (?) accepted
[22:41] *BigFree* we cant offer luxes
[22:41] *Togas* Toldo finishes walls this turn
[22:41] *notyoueit* oh
[22:41] *BigFree* it wont let us
[22:41] *Togas* will start on X unit, doesn't matter
[22:41] *Aeson* I meant in salamanca
[22:41] *Togas* ah, sorry
[22:41] *GK* no. sal is lost. better to rush the pike IMHO.
[22:41] *BigFree* we rush Pike in Slamanca
[22:41] *notyoueit* you can't offer luxes? you can't ask for them. we have to offer accepted back to you
[22:41] *Aeson* sal isn't lost
[22:41] *Aeson* it's nasty
[22:42] *BigFree* nye: the luxes are greyed out
[22:42] *BigFree* I do not know why
[22:42] *notyoueit* if that road is gone, i doubt they will bother with it
[22:42] *Aeson* just make sure the mountain road is pillaged
[22:42] *BigFree* even after putting peace on the table
[22:42] *notyoueit* doh. no valid trade net
[22:42] *Aeson* yah, luxs have to wait until after peace is accepted
[22:42] *notyoueit* bug of mp
[22:42] *E_T* it could be because of it's already traded, Togas, send me the save so I can look at it
[22:42] *Aeson* we upped our Lux rate this turn, so shouldn't be a problem
[22:42] *BigFree* yes 12:4(1
[22:43] *Togas* et, you should have it in your inbox.
[22:43] *notyoueit* aeson, we took missing rp luxes into account?
[22:43] *Aeson* yes, I think so
[22:43] *notyoueit* ok. here's hoping
[22:43] *E_T* Nope, don't have it
[22:44] *Aeson* 20% Lux rate is what we need for the size 12 with just 2 luxuries
[22:44] *Togas* 4 I will offer: Peace, Inchon, Toledo, WM, RoP
[22:44] *Aeson* so hopefully the declaration of wars cancels out the unhappiness from losing Santiago
[22:44] *notyoueit* ok
[22:44] *Togas* or should we not add RoP?
[22:44] *notyoueit* oh, true
[22:44] *notyoueit* rop is good
[22:44] *Togas* will do
[22:44] *Aeson* plus we have GoW's wines still, and dyes from Lego, so we should be ok
[22:44] *notyoueit* one less detail for a following turn
[22:45] *GK* can they see if we have the ROP - not familiar enough with pbem diplo
[22:45] *E_T* Oh, I know why, because we are technically at war, until you accept the peace terms, so there isn't a trade route reestabliched yet
[22:45] *Aeson* if they have embassies, yes
[22:45] *notyoueit* what gets into toledo for the blip?
[22:46] *GK* I would toss everything but one pike(r) - which I would put on teh mountain as a spy.
[22:46] *Aeson* nice catch E T.. that would do it
[22:46] *GK* pike on mountain against lone MI(v)..... what are the odds.
[22:46] *Togas* the teleport will be:
[22:47] *Togas* 4 pikes, 6 inf, and workers.
[22:47] *Togas* however, 4 pikes from the region arrive in Pampl this turn
[22:47] *Togas* pampl has 2 pikes and horse.
[22:47] *Aeson* once you get fortified, 60% in your favor GK
[22:47] *notyoueit* 4 pikes arrive on foot?
[22:47] *Togas* yes
[22:47] *Togas* grand total: 10 pikes, 6 inf, 1 horse.
[22:47] *E_T* Hmmm, something must be wrong with my e-mail server at my ISP, I can't check for any new mail
[22:47] *Togas* AND...
[22:47] *Togas* 7 cats, 2 horses
[22:48] *Aeson* we are hoping that ND still 'sees' only the 2 Pikes and a Horse
[22:48] *Aeson* through GoW
[22:48] *Togas*
[22:48] *Aeson* they would guess you have more units from the cities...but that's a lot
[22:48] *notyoueit* arashi all over again...
[22:48] *notyoueit* what can be spared to go to slamanca?
[22:49] *GK* thanks Aeson.
[22:49] *notyoueit* remember, the new arivals are unforted
[22:49] *Aeson* Id say 4 Pikes
[22:49] *notyoueit* they only have 2 pike there
[22:49] *Togas* the 4 pikes (on foot) arrive from the east, cannot reach Sal this turn
[22:49] *Aeson* maybe better 2 pikes, 2 med inf
[22:49] *notyoueit* so 2 pike, but the rest are unforted
[22:49] *Togas* we presently have 2 pikes in pampl. 1 spear in Sal. 1 pike south of Sal
[22:49] *notyoueit* no med inf
[22:49] *GK* they could arive in 2 and fort on 3
[22:49] *Aeson* oh.. so only 2 pikes could go anyways
[22:49] *Togas* right
[22:50] *notyoueit* 2 plus the one
[22:50] *Togas* we could also send 2 pikes to Zaragoza in the Fog of war
[22:50] *notyoueit* 3
[22:50] *Aeson* that would give 3 (the one from the S), and a spear
[22:50] *Aeson* on the Mountain
[22:50] *Togas* sal is on a hill, yes, and has a RIVER approach
[22:51] *Arnelos* 12do we have a wall in some of these cities?
[22:51] *Togas* no walls in Sal. Can be rushed for 64g
[22:51] *Arnelos* for instance... if ND attacks Pamplona and get it down to Pop 5-6... we'll need a wall
[22:51] *Aeson* they would probably cross the river, attack, then move back if they went for Sal
[22:51] *Togas* we have 107g
[22:51] *BigFree* 4 Quick Poll: 12 1 Attack ND Ansar with RP horseman at Leon 2 2 Something else, maybe pillage?
[22:51] *Arnelos* I don't think a quickpoll should answer that question ;p
[22:51] *GK* 2
[22:52] *Togas* clearly 2
[22:52] *BigFree* 1
[22:52] *Aeson* which is why walls would be nasty... they give ZOC
[22:52] *BigFree* 30 shield unit eveny matched against a 70 shield unit
[22:53] *notyoueit* pillaging would not help too much, you can only do adjacent tiles and escape
[22:53] *GK* if we get chiv in 3, then hold them in reserve for now.
[22:53] *notyoueit* we plan that you hold pmaplona, and we both use those roads to hameer nd
[22:54] *BigFree* we lack gold for upgrades
[22:54] *notyoueit* man, i a crappy typist
[22:54] *BigFree* we have been rushing like mad
[22:54] *Aeson* GS can help I think
[22:54] *notyoueit* a little
[22:54] *Togas* sorry, BF.
[22:54] *Togas* he stays.
[22:54] *Aeson* we have most of our second wave (maybe all) upgraded
[22:56] *notyoueit* btw, what does mil advisor say about army strengths?
[22:56] *GK* This turn we should mostly just wait and see what ND does. Just shuffling some units around. Lets hold the horses for a sure thing or upgrading.
[22:56] *E_T* What't the axis of your attack going to be?
[22:56] *GK* average
[22:56] *GK* against both ND and goW
[22:57] *Aeson* We first have to see what GoW does
[22:57] *E_T* Waffle, I hope
[22:57] *notyoueit* e_t. right down their throats... leon, fort whatever, nd cities
[22:57] *Aeson* if they are going to skirt around us, we can devote most of our first wave to help you with ND
[22:57] *notyoueit* could i get a total of your forces?
[22:57] *Togas* I have a pike and a inf near Barcelona. Send them thru Madrid or send them towards Salamanca via the desert road (nearly done)?
[22:58] *GK* hole one notyoueit
[22:58] *GK* hold
[22:58] *notyoueit* togas, how far to salamanca?
[22:58] *notyoueit* how far to nm?
[22:58] *Togas* 4 moves either way
[22:58] *Togas* to NM?
[22:58] *Togas* instant
[22:58] *Togas* this turn
[22:59] *Togas* I can move them there, let them teleport next turn
[22:59] *Togas* we hand over NM *next* turn, yes?
[22:59] *Aeson* yes
[22:59] *notyoueit* if they are 4 to salamanca, then others could get there quicker
[22:59] *Aeson* we land this turn
[22:59] *Togas* will move them to NM.
[22:59] *GK* 3 horse, 1 cat, 3 spear, 1 warr, 20 pike, 13 MI and 15 workers
[22:59] *Aeson* well... it's next turn really
[23:00] *notyoueit* thanks, gk
[23:00] *Togas* where is the GS city to be built?
[23:00] *Aeson* nye, I think what we've seen from ND is ~60% of what they have, if my math is close
[23:00] *notyoueit* can you giva me an idea of how many of which type are regs?
[23:00] *Aeson* NM33
[23:00] *Aeson* the hill out on the coast along the river
[23:00] *E_T* Someone needs to complile a complete OOB for them
[23:00] *Togas* should we build any added roads?
[23:01] *GK* all spear and war, and about 1/2 pike.
[23:01] *notyoueit* get you workers the heck away from nd
[23:01] *Togas* I mean near NM
[23:01] *notyoueit* are regs?
[23:01] *GK* yes
[23:01] *E_T* In the cities of just away
[23:01] *E_T* *or
[23:01] *notyoueit* togas, a road at nm9 would help
[23:02] *notyoueit* do you have 1 or 2 workers within range?
[23:02] *GK* 2 - 2 turns to get there
[23:02] *notyoueit* cool. that is sooner than we can get a road done
[23:03] *GK* I have to go soon. I have to wake up in 4.5 hours to go to work.
[23:03] *notyoueit* g'night GK
[23:04] *E_T* I have to get up for work in 5.5 hours, too. See you all later
[23:04] *Togas* I am moving 2 workers in range of NM to start road next turn
[23:04] * E_T is now known as E_T_bed
[23:06] *notyoueit* g'night e_t
[23:06] *GK* night all.
[23:07] * GK has left #MilOps
[23:07] *notyoueit* have you decided what to do about vigo, togas?
[23:07] *Togas* my options are:
[23:07] *Togas* keep it with 1 pike
[23:07] *Togas* keep it with full garrison
[23:07] *Togas* gift it
[23:07] *Togas* abandon it
[23:07] * Arnelos is now known as ArnIDLE
[23:07] *Togas* ...
[23:07] *Togas* any other options?
[23:08] *notyoueit* not that i can think of. calling in the enterprise is prolly not going to help
[23:08] *Togas* my pref is to keep it with 1 pike, put the others in the mtns, make ND try to remove them by force
[23:08] *notyoueit* i concur. i beleive aeson does too.
[23:08] *Aeson* yes
[23:09] *Aeson* maybe just leave the Iron one where it is
[23:09] *Togas*
[23:09] *BigFree* I disagree
[23:09] *BigFree* but oh well
[23:09] *notyoueit* that has 1 pike and 1 spear move the pass se.
[23:10] *Togas* where to put the spear and pike?
[23:10] *Togas* which mtns?
[23:10] * BigFree has left #MilOps
[23:10] *Aeson* wouldn't that be 2 Pikes and a spear?
[23:10] *notyoueit* mtn 2 3 of vigo
[23:10] *Aeson* with the road
[23:11] *Aeson* so ND cant use it (probably just pillage it right now)
[23:11] *notyoueit* oh, maybve it is. i missed the guy to the north
[23:11] *Aeson* other thought would be to load him on the galley
[23:11] *Aeson* and maybe just force nd to do a little thinking at the proper time
[23:11] *notyoueit* galley can't get there aeson
[23:12] *notyoueit* not a gs galley
[23:12] *Aeson* ooops
[23:12] *Aeson* my bad
[23:12] *notyoueit* you get used to it, eh?
[23:12] *Aeson* yah...i'm stuck thinking in 4's
[23:13] *notyoueit* now that the nd galleys are empty, might want to run with the nina, pinta?
[23:13] *notyoueit* or challange them
[23:13] *notyoueit* you could win
[23:13] *notyoueit* reg to vet
[23:14] *notyoueit* you get 10% bonus if they attack you
[23:14] *Aeson* it looks like it's doing it's job actually
[23:14] *Aeson* ND has those two pikes shadowing it
[23:14] *Aeson* ... keep them busy?
[23:14] *Togas*
[23:14] *notyoueit* well, running would entail going further north
[23:14] *Aeson*
[23:15] *Aeson* I was just thinking that it serves it's purpose without the Pike... talking to myself
[23:15] *notyoueit* oh. ok.
[23:15] * notyoueit whispers about aeson
[23:15] *notyoueit* oops. did he hear that?
[23:16] * Aeson hears God calling down for him to lead a Crusade to Spain, and promptly charges his trusty stead into the sea
[23:16] *notyoueit* hahaha
[23:17] *notyoueit* good thing you were not on a steed. could have gotten yourself hurt.
[23:17] *Aeson* the Lemming Crusade it will be known as
[23:17] *Aeson* we need to build a bridge to bob..
[23:18] *notyoueit* yes, riding your beds over cliffs would be lemming like
[23:18] *Aeson* our cliffs aren't very well placed for a narrow crossing
[23:18] *Aeson* but it's worth a shot
[23:19] *notyoueit*
[23:19] *Togas* is it at all worth it to send 2 pikes from Pamplona towards zaragoza?
[23:19] *notyoueit* goos q, togas
[23:19] *notyoueit* *good q
[23:19] *notyoueit* aeson?
[23:20] *notyoueit* only 4 pike there
[23:20] *Aeson* theyd end up at Z 33 right?
[23:20] *notyoueit* that is light
[23:20] *Togas* right

[notyoueither]

[23:21] *Aeson* and ND could see them if they are attacking Z
[23:21] *Aeson* If ND goes all out, Z could fall this turn
[23:21] *Togas* with or without the pikes
[23:21] *Aeson* not good odds for ND, but it could happen
[23:21] *Togas* but if ND gives us a turn...
[23:21] *notyoueit* if they attack z, they would need most all to take it
[23:22] *notyoueit* if z falls, the pike run back to pamp
[23:22] *Aeson* ND isn't going to wait I think
[23:22] *notyoueit* that is a good point.
[23:22] *notyoueit* do they assault pamp, or z?
[23:22] *Aeson* so if they give you a turn, they will be attacking something else, and then wont have the units to hit Z and take it, even without the 2 Pikes
[23:23] *notyoueit* they most likely picked leon as lightly defended
[23:23] *Aeson* the next turn... sorry that was so convoluted
[23:23] *Aeson* and I think they'd hit Pamplona now
[23:23] *Togas* wouldn't that be something
[23:23] *Aeson* thinking Z is the fortress Spain
[23:23] *Togas* pamp has no walls...
[23:23] *Aeson* it would..
[23:23] *Togas* looks like a weaker target
[23:23] *notyoueit* 8 unforted pikes in pamp if those two move
[23:24] *Togas* 10 if they stay
[23:24] *Aeson* I'd keep them in, the 2 fortified pikes would have good shots at getting to elite
[23:24] *notyoueit* how many ansars could be in range?
[23:24] *Aeson* 6 if they haven't reinforced
[23:24] *Aeson* I'd guess up to 10
[23:24] *Aeson* they could have gotten Ansars to Leon unseen
[23:24] *notyoueit* yes
[23:25] *notyoueit* gow has 14 riders
[23:25] *notyoueit* nd could have 16 or 18 ansars
[23:25] *notyoueit* yes?
[23:25] *Aeson* yah
[23:25] *Togas* the Nina spied an ansar to the north
[23:25] *notyoueit* that could have up to 14 reasy to pounce
[23:25] *Togas* and ND has alot more 'mixed' units
[23:25] *Aeson* maybe a couple more, but that would mean they have no pikes or med inf we haven't seen
[23:25] *notyoueit* oh
[23:26] *Aeson* I'd guess they are at 14 or so total
[23:26] *Aeson* and they have Pikes back home that we haven't seen, maybe some med inf too
[23:26] *Togas* send the pikes to Zargoza or leave them in Pampl?
[23:26] *Aeson* they'd have to be insane to clear their cities with GoW around
[23:27] *Aeson* your call I don't think they will matter either way
[23:27] *Aeson* they could matter in Pamplona though
[23:28] *notyoueit* aeson has a point that they will attack again, this turn
[23:28] *notyoueit* that is highly likely
[23:28] *Togas* question: With 1 sheild left in the box, is it worth it to rush, or just wait a turn?
[23:28] *Togas* with 1 sheild left to fill
[23:28] *Aeson* you will finish it next turn no matter what, so no need to rush
[23:28] *notyoueit* you mean z production?
[23:28] *Togas* yes
[23:29] *notyoueit* it will finish naturally in the same time as if rushed
[23:29] *Togas* I will leave them in Pampl. They may be trying to blitz us.
[23:29] *Aeson* what about walls in Salamanca?
[23:29] *Togas* I'll rush them
[23:30] *Aeson* if they go that way, at least you'll get ZOC shots even if they just pass by
[23:30] *Togas* 4 all moves completed
[23:30] *Aeson* gift the remaining cash?
[23:31] *Togas* will do so, just checking the cities now.
[23:33] *Togas* 4 just offered all gold
[23:33] *Togas* you may get a double offer with the cities, etc, but it's best to be sure
[23:34] *Aeson* ok
[23:35] *Aeson* Hopefully this is the last turn Spain will have to worry about losing cities
[23:36] *Aeson* I'm glad Vox never had fast movers, or we would have had to make a lot of the same choices there at the start
[23:37] *Togas* 4 all screenshot done
[23:37] *Togas* OK, I'm about ready to send off the save
[23:38] *Togas* just double checking things...
[23:38] *notyoueit* just one check, what was sent with peace?
[23:38] *notyoueit* or did you already tell me that?
[23:38] *Aeson* I think ROP, Toledo were sent
[23:38] *Aeson* and later the gold reserves
[23:39] *Togas* ROP, toledo, inchon, WM, gold
[23:39] *notyoueit* ok
[23:39] *notyoueit* now i am dieing to see the save.
[23:39] *Togas* will send it off shortly. Hopefully you guys get it tomorrow
[23:40] *notyoueit* wouldn't it be a hoot if gow's riders are nowhere to be seen?
[23:41] *Aeson* I'm pretty sure they moved everything to Bilbao 77 this turn... next turn would be the telling turn
[23:42] *Aeson* Thanks for the chat RP! Hope i'm not too annoying at these things
[23:42] *notyoueit* yes.
[23:43] *notyoueit* me too.
[23:43] *notyoueit* you are gracious hosts
[23:43] *Togas* you two are a great help
[23:43] *Togas* give us some additional people to bounce ideas off of, and some good tactical assistance
[23:44] *notyoueit* and you never have to worry about us not having something to say
[23:44] *notyoueit* hehe
[23:44] *Aeson* We will be landing 14 units on NM6 this turn, and then the Settler and another unit on NM33 the following turn
[23:44] *notyoueit* so, you should have to feel alone
[23:45] *Aeson* n't?
[23:45] *notyoueit* *not
[23:45] *notyoueit* oops
[23:45] *Togas*
[23:46] *notyoueit* the dithering gow has done. how much of an impact of that?
[23:46] *notyoueit* that, right there, could be the war for them
[23:46] *Aeson* yah, every move is precious
[23:46] *asleepath* vox: redux
[23:46] *Togas* they've wasted too much time
[23:47] *notyoueit* they could have consoldated at toledo 8 8 9, and toledo would not be safe
[23:47] *notyoueit* i wonder if nd got in the way, and then they couldn;t?
[23:47] *notyoueit* that would be funny
[23:48] *Aeson* I really have no idea what they were thinking /shrug
[23:48] *notyoueit* time for me to leave, maybe
[23:48] *Aeson* maybe they thought RP would keep to the Mountain
[23:48] *notyoueit* i am onto babble now
[23:49] *Aeson* well, it is about that time for me as well.
[23:49] *Togas* I need a drink. BRB
[23:52] *Togas* thank you all for coming.
[23:52] *Togas* I'm going to get a few things cleaned up around here and relax a bit before going to bed.
[23:53] *Togas* I'll be AFK a bit.
[23:53] * asleepath has left #MilOps
[23:53] * Togas is now known as TogasAFK
[23:54] *Aeson* Will see you guys next turn.
[23:55] * Aeson has quit IRC (Quit)
[23:55] * ArnIDLE has quit IRC (Quit)
[23:57] * WhiteBand has left #MilOps
[23:58] * Arnelos has joined #MilOps
[23:58] *Arnelos* How did it go?
[23:59] *TogasAFK* went well
[23:59] * TogasAFK is now known as Togas
[00:00] *notyoueit* time i go bye bye and leave you folks to chat. g'night
Session Close: Thu Jul 24 00:00:23 2003