Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Re-entering builder mode.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re-entering builder mode.

    It looks a lot like Vox will be off our continent soon, one way or the other...

    We've started the Courthouses and Marketplaces, which is good, but where from there?

    Forbidden Palace:

    Our shot at another Leader for the FP is pretty much nill in the near term future, and so building it by hand is going to be a key project. While building it near the bottleneck would be the best position, it's also going to take far too long without a Leader.

    Arashi can be quite productive within just a few more turns, and IMO is the best bet for now. Later, the Palace can be moved, and most of our current cities will still be in pretty good shape with Courthouses. This will 'hurt' Hurricane's production somewhat, as Arashi moves in front of it for closest city. It helps Arashi though, and Arashi is a bit more productive short and long term. The 10% boost in optimal cities from the FP should mean that none of our cities actually takes any perceptible hit from their current corruption levels too.

    To build the FP in Arashi, I think we should switch from a Market there to a Courthouse and have it as one of our first rushes. The commerce boost won't be quite as high, but we'd need all the extra shields we can get. With a Courthouse, and boosted to size 12 with workers (some Irrigating of Grasslands to support it), Arashi should be at ~15 turns to finish the FP. It will be a major boost to overall efficiency.

    ---------------------------

    Tech and Wonders:

    We need to decide which branch we want to run up. We should have Theology and Engineering in time to choose either one, but Education is probably going to be available to research before Invention. I'd prefer the top half, as it gives us shots at Copernicus' and Smith's, not to mention Banks and Universities. We're going to want to start the proper prebuilds very soon.

    Tempest is an obvious choice, and would probably be timed very well for Smiths if we start it after a Marketplace and Library (and don't push the tech rate too fast). If we have the Marketplace and Library up aroudn the time we get Theology, and then average 6-8 turns per tech on the way (Education, Banking, Economics, with Astronomy thrown in along the way) it works out very well.

    If we can get the Collosus (200) in Hurricane, we probably can also get Copernicus (400) there, as that would put us at roughly 30 turns for both. We'd need to start the Collosus within the next couple turns. I would expect Astronomy to show up in roughly 25 turns (5 for Theology, 10 for Education, 10 for Astronomy, unless we're pushing it). Newton's (400) after that is a possibility too, given the tech rate the others seem to be content to keep.

    Copernicus is one we could really use though, and it might be worth it to try and guarantee we get it by building in another city without the Collosus (if we do go for/get it). EotS would be a good spot for it after their Marketplace/Library, and would be able to build it in 20 turns, but runs the risk that it's prebuild options get built in the meantime (somewhat unlikely). Tempest could do it the same way, but then we likely miss out on a very good shot at Smiths. That would allow us to time it so we finish it the turn we finish researching Astronomy, and no one is likely to beat us to that point. We could use the Great Wall (200 shields)/Great Library (400)and then later Leo's (600) (trade Education for Invention, or something along those lines, if the GL gets built first) to get to it.

    Leo's itself is one that would really help too, but if a Bob war breaks out, it's far and away the most likely one to get rushed by a Leader IMO. I also think GoW may very well be using the Great Library as a prebuild for it (they may just want the GL themselves though), and if that's the case I can't see any of our cities beating them to it. We are at 30 turns for it, and GoW's Capitol is size 7 and probably at ~300 shields into the build.

    The other civs have their GA's coming up... but perfectly timing prebuilds can still beat them to wonders if they aren't doing it themselves (and pushing tech faster than we are). If we get enough of the right wonders (Smiths, Copernicus, Collosus, Newtons, and ToE), our land is good enough to keep us above the commerce/research capacity of any non-dominant Bob civ, and maybe even Lego as well since at least some of their land will be in the hands of Vox, and is rather dismal land in any case.

    Most of these prebuilds preclude building Universities first, but our research should still be fast enough with just Libraries to time it right. In a disaster (meaning we lose a wonder, with no others to switch to), Universities are the best fallback options to build. Universities are also things we can't be 'beat' to as postponed builds.

  • #2
    Aeson!

    One thing I want to object, is that we should assume more teams are already working on palace / FP prebuilds, and have planned a few of these themselves. I'm not saying we can't beat them using superior planning, but it will all get very tight, and risky. But we need to consider it, if we want to have a shot at any wonder build peacefully.

    DeepO

    Comment


    • #3
      Don;t forget the diplo angle... GWs could be part of the design of a Grand Alliance.
      The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

      Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

      Comment


      • #4
        Will tech go as fast as you think though, if war breaks out on BOB I wouldn't be surprised if tech would slow down again.
        Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
        Then why call him God? - Epicurus

        Comment


        • #5
          The idea is for us to drive tech at a reasonable pace up the 'wonder' path. This allows us to time techs and prebuilds perfectly... the tech pop-up allows us to switch to the wonder from our prebuild, and not even a Leader can beat us to building it in that case.

          With Libraries in Hurricane, EotS, and Tempest at size 12, with Markets and 5 Luxuries, we should be able to keep the tech rate where we want it until someone's GA starts. Lego is the only problem here really, as the other's GA's aren't likely to be peaceful. (GoW had a shot, but I can't imagine why they'd wait this long to build the Great Wall)

          If we can convince Lego to take the lower branch of tech, perhaps with a JS Bach's clause, then we should be driving tech along the upper branch at the pace we want. RP's choice for Monarchy isn't terrible, given the support numbers we are paying, but still probably eliminates them from being major players in the tech race. GoW and ND would need to focus their GA on military, as that's how it will be triggered.

          Comment


          • #6
            Aeson,

            You don't think that a city near to where Dissidentville is currently (I'd prefer to move it one tile Northeast), with a courthouse & in WLTKD (our 2 luxuries, 2-3 more via trades with GoW & RP) could punch out a FP in a reasonable amount of time?

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              We need to build a Courthouse and Aquaduct there before starting, plus do lots of terrain improvements. Arashi can start in just a few turns, and has the terrain improvements to support pop 10, and we can get to 12 by Irrigating a couple Grasslands (only worth it once some Mountains are mined though).

              If we get Dissidentville in 18 turns... that puts us at about 40 turns for our FP if we really focus on it there. Arashi should have it in 15-20, depending on when we rush the Courthouse.

              The other city I think would be a good choice is Tempest, but that cuts out a good wonder prebuild.

              Comment


              • #8
                I see your point. If we can convince Vox to use teleportation, though, it won't take 18 turns to get Dissville. But it will still take significantly longer, I'll grant you.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think Dissidentville or a point a little north would be a better place for our FP. It would take longer (and require more rushing improvements to set it up), but would do a whole lot more good.unless and until we move our palace off the continent. And if we're strong enough to make moving our palace off the continent practical, we're strong enough that the benefits of having our FP in Arashi instead of Dissidentville would not be critical.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That's what I'm talking about, yeah.

                    What do you think of moving Dissidentville (renamed, I'm sure) 1 tile NE ("9") and devoting the majority of our workers & rush gold to developing its terrain & increasing its population to at least 6 (for WLTKD).

                    If we can convince Vox of the teleportation plan, they could probably be outta here in 10 turns or less.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think we should push Vox to abandon Dissidentville early (about as quickly as we can get a settler ready to found a replacement city). I'm not sure whether it makes sense to tell them about the Forbidden Palace angle or not; it would help them understand our need, but I don't think you normally know where a civ's FP is without spying, and having other civs know could make it a prime target for an invader.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No - no mentioning the Forbidden. That will get out to other teams, and they will then know where our FP city is.

                        I agree, Dissidentville should be the first city they get rid of (set it to build a worker and don't let it grow) and we should get a settler up there asap.

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think getting the FP built sooner outweighs the slightly better position further north. I'm not sure how much better it is either, as by the time it 'pays off', we may have long moved our Palace or wanted to.

                          The advantage of building it sooner can be leveraged into future advantages. Eventually a better placement can catch up, but it does take a long time. By then we may have won/lost the game (or made a significant swing one way or the other) due to early advantages.

                          It also won't require cooperation from Vox for us to build it in Arashi.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok, we seem to pretty much agree that the choice is between Arashi and a city near Dissidentville.

                            And it all comes down to a smaller benifit sooner vs. a bigger benifit later.

                            Personally, I'm dubious that we will ever manage to move our Palace. Therefore, I favor the Dissville area.

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I prefer a little bit further north as well, to better maximize the benefit while the Palace is in EotS, however long that is.
                              The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                              Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X