Office of Diplomatic Affairs

[nbarclay]

I recognize the need for speed (and I'm sorry about not being around at the right time), but I think it was a mistake to suggest the idea of Vox's leaving the continent in return for peace without making sure they know they'd be able to do so with enough settlers to reestablish themselves elsewhere if they can find a place. That's why I wanted a longer message with more explanation.

[Theseus]

Damn, we're screwing up again.

We are a very democratic and flat-hierarchy team ( ), but I think we need to get a little self-strict here... we need a FAM, or the equivalent, who is the one official voice of GS. This can be a very good thing, as it allows multiple points of contact with the proviso / 'give' that nothing is official until the FAM says so.

[ManicStarSeed]

I am willing to be that (single point FAM). I am concerned that the pace of the game vs RL would kill me and my effectiveness as a single point day-to-day diplomat so a team of ambassadors works best for me.

I can keep vox going (as ambassador) from here. That leaves us 4 spots for ambassadors. TRhey are "taken', but I believe that soe reaffimation would be in order. This is the thread would be used to sanction all diplomacy "documents", policies, PR and responses, etc. I could keep the "officialness" going and relativly solid, but I am concerned about the day-to-day contacts (vox excluded). I need help.

Idealy there will be a team of about 5 people who meet in this thread and formulate a coherent policy that the MoDA (Minister of Diplomatic Affairs) blesses as "official"

I could be that MoDA...or if you like MoFA (Minister of Foreign Affairs)


Mss

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by nbarclay
I recognize the need for speed (and I'm sorry about not being around at the right time), but I think it was a mistake to suggest the idea of Vox's leaving the continent in return for peace without making sure they know they'd be able to do so with enough settlers to reestablish themselves elsewhere if they can find a place. That's why I wanted a longer message with more explanation.

It was not matter of speed, it was a matter of tact. Our economic gain is the only ticking clock we really have right now. The shorter message allows room for Vox simply to say "maybe", or "no way". We come of as arrogant with a detail proposal that might or might not work for Vox. Let them let us know if they are willing to enertain the idea. They can say no way, we kick their but another turn, and ask again if we choose. Granted thetre wiil be a time when there is no more to say or ask and then they die.

As for the "speed" it was timing (during RPs turn) so that they have as little time to decide as possible while still looking good as not to have sent it during their turn.

It even works to send the "hostilities will continue" message seperatly as it seems less threatening than if they were in one message.

Mss

[ManicStarSeed]

BTW Nathan.....

We might be using the bulk of your message in the next one or two go arounds, if all goes well.

Mss

[nbarclay]

I can see the logic in sending something a bit less specific, but with no more than you sent, is Vox going to figure out that there might be a way for them to establish a viable civilization elsewhere? Unless they see that possibility, I think the absence of specifics makes the idea more insulting, not less. Similarly, I'd like to make it clearer that our reasons for wanting them off the continent are practical, not a desire for revenge.

[ManicStarSeed]

nbarclay, I understand what you are saying, but it is all a matter of style. You respect being presented with a finished plan to consider. By offering one, you project the respect that you expect. To many (who do not operate like you) it can come across as dictorial and overbearing without the right approach. Simply stated, your proposal is too much too soon and it would appear that we are trying to push something through......

A wizard just doesn't walk up to a werebear's home along with 13 dwarves and a hobbit and expect to be welcome.

Did you read the hobbit?
There was a part where Gandalf knew of a werebear named Beorn, and Gandalf & Company needed real help. He also knew of Beorn's fickel temperment. The plan was that Gandalf and Bilbo first go up to the houseand break the ice with a story while a pair of dwarves show up after every 5 minute interval. The story started simple but Gandalf used several words & phrases like "a couple of my companions" and "several" then eventuall used the term "a dozen birds" in some fir trees. All the while the dwarvs kept coming and Beorn was so interested and becomming attached to the outcome of the story (through teh interuptions of teh arriving dwarvs), He really no longer cared about the inconveience of having to host 13 dwarves, a hobbit and a wizard.

Now that was a story (canned outcome), and this is more real thus subject to be different, but the diplomatic lesson is the same. Do not overwhelm at first. Build gradually and shape the discussion so that befor you know it, the eggs find themselves breaking themselves for your omlette experience.

Our proposal assumes a willingness to even discuss the core issue..... We tend to assume too much because we tend to feel that we know best, gamewise. We at least come across as such (assumptive and aggrognt), This what I am trying to change.

Are they willing to leave for peace? Let them ask..."what do you have in mind".... If they are not willing to leave, then we know what we must do. No need to provide details without a willingness to consider the core issue.

Mss

[ManicStarSeed]

We need each ambassador to check in with each civ (RP,Lego, ND, GoW) and ask whether they want Vox to survive or not. If they want them to survive, do they know of a patch of land that Vox can occupy? or... Are they willing to share a land mass with Vox?

You can let them know that we are on the determined to realizing manifest destiny and are looking for ways to end this that will allow Vox to survive.

Also, you can say that Vox is aware that we want them off the continent, but have not discussed the issue (implementation) further with them. We are waiitring to hear from Vox to see if they would entertain the idea.


Ideally we want to understand the global perspective regarding Vox's surival and the global willingness to accomidate it. By doing this, we act as a member of the global community by giving all the nations a stake outcome of this war. The world can either make room for Vox or the can let them die, but in the end, the world will have a say. They can either watch them die or make room... They can either put up or shut up.....

We are looking to get some answers back before RPs next turn, just in case we can find a solution/proposal that we want to offer Vox.

Mss

[ManicStarSeed]

As Vox has decided that they are not intersted in leaving the continent for peace, I believe that My next message to Vox should be.

"GS honors your resolve and fortitude, we will sing epic songs honoring the memory of your culture and how valantly you defended your homeland. We both know that the next 100 years will be quite bloody for us all and we are willing to accept the costs of driving you top the sea. Let us know if ever you change your mind and are willing to accept our help finding greener pastures."

Comments?

Mss

[notyoueither]

Woah. That's a bit premature, ain't it?

More like, 'so be it, let us each trust our fates to the whims of fortune.'

[Theseus]

I'd say, slow down. Let's play out a turn or two.

[nbarclay]

MSS, your earlier post didn't even come close to making it clear that the only way we would accept peace is if they leave the continent. I think you're making too big a jump all at once. I suggested in another thread that I send the following, and it seems to have gotten a pretty good reaction from the team:

I hate to say it, but doves in the lands of Gathering Storm are an endangered species right now. The hawks outnumber them enormously. We are now within sight of total victory, and while we would like to get back into builder mode as quickly as possible, spending the rest of the game wondering when and how Vox might betray us again isn't worth it. The deception you used to set up your invasion was superb, but the price of such a well-executed deception is that it makes further trust next to impossible.

Vox's only real hope of survival, if you consider it worth taking, would be to evacuate this continent and find somewhere else to live (if a suitable place can be found). If you are interested in that, we could negotiate some time for you to do so and take enough with you that you can get going in your new location reasonably quickly. Otherwise, I don't see how a peace treaty would be possible.

Nathan

[ManicStarSeed]

All:
I understand that what I wrote is moving too quick and a little presumptous. Consider the proposal killed.

On the other hand...

nbarclay:

I like what you have. I did not see it posted elswhere. I would be happy to respond with what you have here.

Do we want to send it this turn (before or during RPs turn) or wait a turn or two as Thesus suggested? Granted Theseus maight have been talking about my earlier "fine your gonna die" message....

Either way, we need to respond to thier offer that we recieved a day or so ago.... I like what nathan wrote...

Mss

[nbarclay]

I'm sending it now. It's already been way too long.

[Shiber]

So do I.
Unless there're any objections, let's send this right away. We're very late in responding to Vox's last proposal.
Edit: I was too late, Nathan already sent it