GoW- Diplomacy comments #2

[OPD]

You go for it, you may want to copy Aggie in on any messages you send to GoW.

[DeepO]

Good chat, Sleepy.

Some extra points for the future:
- If GoW gives Med to Lego, we're still screwed. They can get electricity for the promise they will never trade Med to Lego or Vox. ND is fine, for all I care.
- ND and GoW have to realize that although we are good in research, they will have to share the burden, or Lego can easily keep up. They need to start researching. Both of them.
- ask for an extra lux, and if we can embargo Lego
- getting ToE or Hoover is not a gift from them to us, we will get it, and they never will be able to. Let them know... the only thing they can do is help Lego get it instead, themselves they have no chance.
- I wouldn't say we need Hoover to get close to Lego, we need Hoover to stay close to GoW. ND and Lego will run away in production, whether we have Hoover or not. This is a big difference! We're already #3, and can't grow anymore, the 3 others still have lots of growth left

And I agree with MZ that we need to be more open with them. They should have known our etas on the techs, at least the moment we had them we should have said it to them. We were sitting on ToG for several turns before they got it from Lego.

But all in all, a good chat, keep up the good work! We need an active ambassador to Gow, and we surely could use one for ND as well.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

1. Isn't Electricity planned to be traded for GOW's Industrialisation?

2. GOW might be getting a tradeable Gems soon - we can trade that for Incense.

3. We weren't sitting on ToG, we sent it to GoW unaccepted for the two turns as soon as we discovered it. They had (according to the latest chat) agreed to deal with Lego for it long ago, but didn't own up to it when they might.

[Arrian]

Ok, my thoughts on the chat:

We could waive the NDA on magnetism so GoW can sell it to ND for cash, provided that ND promises not to pass it on to Lego (to the extent Lego doesn't already have it). That's fine by me. What's better is that it leaves the negotiations to GoW. GoW seem to know how to handle ND much better than we do.

Second, w/regard to GoW offering not to challenge us for Hoover in exchange for tech... well, I'm actually not concerned about them beating us to Hoover. HOWEVER, I would not be opposed to offering to give Atomic Theory to both ND and GoW in exchange for pledges from both teams not to challenge us for Hoover. If we can get ND's promise as well, it's worth it, IMO. I'd like to include a provision that allows us to hold on to AT for a long while to prevent lowering Lego's research costs. We can present it like this: the only value in AT is that it allows research of Electronics, which allows Hydro Plants. Unless GoW and ND plan on building a bunch of those right away, there is no immediate need for them to have AT. Once GoW & ND are prepared for Hydro Plants* we can give them AT.

* - to me, this means that they have factories built and are prepared to either purchase Electronics from us or research it themselves.

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

I'll send zen a note regarding GoW selling Mag to Nd

[DeepO]

They can't challenge us to Hoover, so there is no point in asking it from them. They simply lack the research power to get there in time. The only one coming close is Lego... we can't even beat ourselves to Hoover, if we don't get the 2 free techs.

So, no, not atomic theory for a promise for something that is automatically ours. Let them try for Hoover, I don't care, we'll beat them. They can even have a leader ready, they still can't beat us. It's Medicine we need, and which we'll need fast.

I would offer GOW electricity, and steam, for medicine in 6 turns, and the promise they will not trade it to anyone else during 5 turns. After that, they can do what they want. We have to make sure we accept the deal, so we can start on SM 1 turn before them, and there is no way anybody can beat us to Hoover. Simply impossible.

So please, let's not pay for things that are ours already. We need Medicine in time. Pay for that and nothing else.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

offering them those techs isn't going to get us medicine faster. they don't have the cash to run that severe a defecit.

[DeepO]

We can delay our plans for one turn, and spend one turn of cash on GoW. That's some 500 gold. But I wold only do that with absolute assurances... we're still ahead of Lego, and will stay like that for a couple more turns, but if they somehow get both steam and medicine they can get us. We can afford one turn, not much more.

DeepO

[asleepathewheel]

Ihave nd holding their turn currently while we try to come up with a plan for them to send gow money. should I tell them to just go ahead and play the turn?

[Arrian]

We need to know how much money they need to cut the research time down.

We need to plug MZ for info. Specific questions:

1) What is the fastest they can possibly research medicine?

2) What is the difference in gold between their breakeven rate (which I assume was the basis for the 10-turn estimate) and their max?

I think we could tell them we are interested in providing some funding assistance if they will speed their research rate. Whether that is in the form of waiving the NDA on magnetism so they can get the cash from ND (preferred) or directly from us, remains to be seen.

Third question for them: are they willing to begin deficit research of medicine this turn and trust that we can work all this out before they go broke?

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

I've already sent a message to mz regarding magnetism. I will send something else regarding the other points. His pm box is full, so I'm having to email him directly....

[Cort Haus]

Good news from GoW

1. we send them a worker and Incense they'll set up a Gems colony for us.

2. Darekill may be regaining leadership of ND on a no-trade-with-Lego ticket.

(see PM from MZ here )

Let's see where the Oil is before discussing the price of Rubber. If GS have no Oil is the priority is to recruit ND for the GAUL effort at whatever cost - give 'em techs for free if needed but with ND onboard we can efficiently deconstruct Lego and get a defence policy thrown in (short term).

[DeepO]

great, CH! Worker will be on its way next turn!

DeepO

[DeepO]

damn, was so excited by that lux trade, I forgot to agree with you on the other point: I fully agree. We don't need rubber right now (without it, rifles are easier to build), so let's wait where the oil is before trading.

DeepO

[Cort Haus]

We should get our Incense to GoW before RP sell theirs plus Nav to GoW for Rep Parts, Medicine and Wines.

I couldn't believe it - is that the best deal ever or what? Why do GoW even need Navigation, it doesn't do anything in PTW if you have the Magnet?