Game Discussion IV

[Aeson]

We had a few DD's and BB's left on the stack, all damaged IIRC. There was one empty Transport left. The surviving ships just moved out to sea, as we were done at that point.

We had 7 of those MI left on the Transport near Bob that ND (or was it GoW?) sank the same turn. On our turn, we only had 2 MI and 2 Riflemen left as ground forces. The Riflemen were on Stormia, the 2 MI were on a Transport that had been lagging the main group. (May have had the Cruise Missiles on that Transport too.)

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by ZargonX


Heh, that is true. Though, it was no personal vendetta for me, either. Basically, as Vondrack said, I feared the idea of GS gaining a foothold on Bob. They had demonstrated that they could take a little bit a long way, and the idea of them seizing any portion of the Bobian continent would only mean bad news for Lego in the long run. In addition, at that point, we had excellent relations with GoW and pretty terrible relations with RP due to (apparently) some diessention within their own ranks.

Those factors combined, plus a desire to show that, yes, we were builders, but that didn't mean we couldn't play a part on the world stage, led me to encourage our course of action. Was it the right one? Who knows... the possible outcomes are so varied it's impossible to say.

Do you want to cry in your beer?

We most likely would have happily played an SS build off vs Lego after the two of us decimated Bob and sent the war mongers back to the stone age.

I knew our reputation was overblown. I knew there were people on the other teams who could have swapped in for Nathan, DeepO, or Aeson in this sort of situation. I did not not know that that reputation was lethal for civs other than us.

[ZargonX]

We most likely would have happily played an SS build off vs Lego after the two of us decimated Bob and sent the war mongers back to the stone age.

Well, if we'd known that back then, things would've been a little different now, wouldn't they?

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Do you want to cry in your beer?

We most likely would have happily played an SS build off vs Lego after the two of us decimated Bob and sent the war mongers back to the stone age.

I knew our reputation was overblown. I knew there were people on the other teams who could have swapped in for Nathan, DeepO, or Aeson in this sort of situation. I did not not know that that reputation was lethal for civs other than us.

That's what you get when you try and get the entire strategy forum community in one team.

Reputation didn't do you in. It was what you accomplished that did.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Master Zen
That's what you get when you try and get the entire strategy forum community in one team.

Reputation didn't do you in. It was what you accomplished that did.

To be honest here...

There was basically no reputation available at the beginning of the game - in a sense. It is only now that most everyone participating in this game have earned reputation of some sort. Not talking about Civ3 skills here... because most of us learned all the tricks, I'd say.

The fact that I now know how various players approach diplomacy (as vague as this term in general is) and what they are able/willing to do and what they are not would make any other game so different (and probably so "unfair") that I am not going to take part again.

[notyoueither]

I'll miss you in CIV, vondrack.

Oh danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From glen to glen and down the mountain side
The summer’s gone, and all the roses falling
It’s you, it’s you must go and I must bide

But come ye back when summer’s in the meadow
Or when the valley’s hushed and white with snow
It’s I’ll be here in sunshine, or in shadow
Oh danny boy, oh danny boy, I love you so

But when ye come and all the flowers are dying
If I am dead, and dead I well may be
You’ll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an ave there for me

And I shall hear tho’ soft you tread above me
And all my grave will warmer, sweeter be
For you will bend and tell me that you love me
And I shall sleep in peace until you come to me

[vondrack]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I'll miss you in CIV, vondrack.

You know you won't.

You will only miss me in CIV team and demogames. But we should be meeting much more often in MP or PBEM - as long as you do those, too.

[notyoueither]

There is great anguish, but there is also great triumph. Brotherhood is valuable, even if not victorious.

Waiting for you in CIV.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by vondrack



You know you won't.

You will only miss me in CIV team and demogames. But we should be meeting much more often in MP or PBEM - as long as you do those, too.

I'll miss you in demogames. But I'd be happy to get in on some of those PBEMs you intend to play. Beta would too I'm sure.

[vondrack]

Don't worry, guys, we will have a lot of fun together, once CIV hits the shelves. Until then, though... I am having my plate full.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by vondrack

To be honest here...

There was basically no reputation available at the beginning of the game - in a sense. It is only now that most everyone participating in this game have earned reputation of some sort.

I don't know, at the first of the game, there was definately a certain sense of fear allot of people felt for GS. I do remember that. I remember being confused by it, and openly speaking out against the people who were complaining about the 'elitist' team. Of course, wasn't it originally TTA, not GS? (Trash Trip's Ass, IIRC)

Personally, I didn't see the point behind people being afraid of them. I knew there would be far more than just knowing the game like the back of their hands to win.

Lego had a reputation, just by their founding ideals, as did GoW.

It did not escape me that most of RP was composed of DIA members, either. There was a certain reputation that went along with that.

Vox and Lux were a little more vague, and ND was a mistery. At least to me at the start of the game.

I think this played out in game as much as out of it, even. GS was feared. They made a mockery of an Immortal attack. This proved to be their downfall in the bobian war, because of Legos involvement. Still, no one was really supporting GS against that immortal attack. Everyone was 'pulling' for Vox to some degree. Why? Reputation.

What really surprised me was folks wanting to complain about GS eliminating Vox after that. I was the only one outside of GS calling for them to have the right to remove Vox if they wanted. :shrug:

GoW was being called evil and villainous before the game started. And so we are now.

ND were 'the outsiders'. GoW made it a point to try to capitolize on that by being the first team to befriend them.

From what I've heard, RP acted pretty much similar to the DIA...

And, everyone knows you can't let builders sit back and build forever.
------------------------------------------------------

One thing I found a little odd about GS was their method of recruitment. I will say that.

It certainly played into the sense of them being an elitist group when they denied some members, IIRC, or at least encouraged them to find other teams instead. AFAIK, the only team to do so.

[vondrack]

I meant... there was no reputation one could rely on when it came to ingame actions. No "justified" or, better yet, "earned" reputation. Pretty much everything regarding reputation was, well, assumed...

Now we know much better, I believe, and most of us do have reputation based upon his/her deeds, rather than words.

[Master Zen]

Isn't that more of an incentive to play more demogames vond? I mean, a reincarnation of GoW would mean one thing: we'd get our ass kicked at the start of the game.

Maybe in the CIV demograme teams will be more mixed and hence more balanced and perhaps more unpredictable since you'll have warmongers, builders, backstabbers and everything in the middle all roled into one.

[DeepO]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
One thing I found a little odd about GS was their method of recruitment. I will say that.

It certainly played into the sense of them being an elitist group when they denied some members, IIRC, or at least encouraged them to find other teams instead. AFAIK, the only team to do so.

Wow, hold on. We denied entrance to one person. The reason? All of his posts made him look like a troll, nothing new or interesting there. He may have joined Vox after trying us, but I don't think he has stayed long.

This was at a time, when our team was double in size as any other, and when we started to find out that our style (unanimous decisions for everything, a true democracy) was already cumbersome when everyone is considerate for other opinions. We really didn't want a troll in our midst, only trying to stirr op trouble without bringing anything interesting to the discussion.

I even forgot his hame, but perhaps somebody else remembers him.

Apart from that one which wouldn't be accepted to any team willing to read a couple of his posts, we accepted every single one who asked to join, even if they said beforehand they were going to be lurkers at most. Sure, many of those came from the strat or AU forum, but that's just because our other members are active there. It was not an elitist recruitment process.

BTW, I myself was contacted by alva, fp and Vel, who in the first place knew me from Candle'Bre, not the strat forum (of course, I got into CB through the strat forum). And more then a few of our members became more active in the strat forum after joining GS, not the other way around. It all kind of lead to the same thing, but there was no strategy at all to build an elite team, and we never felt like that either.

We do feel proud for our achievements, but I think everyone involved in this game should be proud of their achievements (and probably is too). That our achievements are perhaps more concentrated at game mechanical things is perhaps in our nature, it never was our goal.

DeepO

[Master Zen]

My Civ-skills when I joined this demogame were a shadow of what they would become. I probably won my first game of emperor around the time I joined the ISDG (and I was one of the oddballs who joined the PTWDG after the ISDG).

Before that I honestly did not play Civ3 much. When vanilla Civ3 came out I thought it sucked so badly that I didn't touch the game more than 3 or 4 times until PTW came and that's when I got "addicted".

Seeing that many of the strat forum gurus had been discussing Civ strategy for well over a year made me think I was at a huge disadvange. That was partly the reason I chose to join GS initially. But then my underdog-ish tendencies made me switch to GoW since I felt that I would be marginally far more usefull in a smaller team. And in what is perhaps a major twist of irony, it was Togas who convinced me to join GoW.