Dark Day for Demo Gaming

[Ming]

Originally posted by Beta
As to an admin doing it - first - I don't thing Ming would be up for the time requirement. And as he has stated, he is letting us manage how we move past this. As to another third party - such as OPD or another admin. Again - you would gve to trust him not to access any civ4 information as well.

You are correct in assuming that I would not be up for the time requirement needed to do this... in addition, not having been involved in the game would make it even more difficult for me to truly track what was needed... and any other Admin would feel the same. But frankly, it isn't our Job.

We will of course answer any questions that we can and assist you in any way we can, but it is really up to you to police and handle your own game.

[Jon Miller]

I feel not at all bad for not allowing planet to join Vox then

JM

[OPD]

Meh, I don't know what to say to this.

Here's a picture of Bob Dylan, taking it easy

[OPD]

Originally posted by Beta
As to an admin doing it - first - I don't thing Ming would be up for the time requirement. And as he has stated, he is letting us manage how we move past this. As to another third party - such as OPD or another admin. Again - you would gve to trust him not to access any civ4 information as well. And it would take him much longer to track down what might or might not be relevant, and he would have to study two sets of threads - including Babylonian - which will really expand the time requirement. And it would probably take me much longer to explain to OPD, look at what he finds, suggest something else, etc, than if I went in and looked myself.

I don't want to do this (I'd be far too lenient anyway), if there's another way I can help just let me know.


How much of a big deal is this? Only as much of a big deal as people decide it is....
This game has gone too far to be stopped by something like this, whatever happens the game will still go on, with the Horde playing a central role.

[Ljube]

I have zero tolerance for DLs, particularly when they ruin forum or demo games.


Once again I ask that only well known and respected members of the community be allowed to join closed forums and that some level of screening be conducted for others.

[Daddy-O]

I agree that some screening could be needed to prevent this. But, what other level of screening would there need to be? JTS/Planet were known to PTS, an admin. An Admin's word for someone should be enough, but the admin had the wool pulled over his eyes. So, screening would not have helped here.

If we start screening people before allowing them into games that makes this a closed community. That is not the Apolyton that I know and love. I have felt welcomed here since my first post. I'd hate to push new people away because of a handful that abused our trust.

I believe Paddy and the others of the Horde that say they did not know about this. So, I have no hard feelings towards them.

As far as this game goes, with the level of distrust that already exists, I think it's done. JTS/Planet had full access to our saves, maps, plans, everything. I find it hard to believe that this did not give him and unwittingly the rest of the Horde insight into Babylon and LostBoys. I am sure planet was a member there before Lord Nuclear took over for 1889.

Again, let me make this clear. I have no hard feelings towards any member of BOH because of this.

[Krill]

That is it. I just don't care anymore.

And Paddy, I have to ask this: Out of the three people who created the DL Planet, how many are now members of Apolyton, what are their logins, and what demogame teams are they apart of?

[Paddy]

Thank you all for your posts.

Krill, when James left the team that made up the login of Planet, he sort his own login. The other two members of the Login Planet do not have any other membership here at Apolyton.

[Grandpa Troll]

Grandpa Troll sez:

Ok

#1-I am a member {albeit not as active due to r/l issues} of the Blood Oath Horde

#2-I have done things as a youth that got me kicked out of my familys home at age of 15 and lived with Outlaw Bikers

The reason I bring this up is for certain one thing:

I dont know anyone here in the real life, but have come to find many endearing qualities to which I somewhat feel I know a bit about many people.

These events sadden me as do any that detract from what I can only assume was an intended pleasurable gaming experience.

I feel the punishments/fines/and incarcerations are acceptable in Grandpa Trols eyes, thats Gramps of Apolyton not Gramps of the BOH

I have respect for Paddy and Beta

I am alittle concerned what went on

Most of us are men here (as oppossed to immature boys).

Let us each look into our own hearts and ask if the experience we have had to this point is worth throwing away or is it more important to use the same energy expended in wringing our hands and pacing back and forth to work together to build a bridge over what is certainly at minimm, muddied waters?

I enjoy playing with my friends here, Lord Beta has more than once lifted me up after a long day at the grind of life

This is more like a hard fought battle where we leave our souls on the field then a game of chess that takes its mind bending toll on us.

Above the issues of misconduct that have indeed been addressed, properly,by Apolyton is the ownership over the future of this issue.

I once heard in a government pre construction meeting aboard Camp Lejeune North Carolina over a very heated issue, that we all needed "to grab an oar" in other words we all are in the boat and we all need to head in one direction to move on.

Paddy, whom I do trust and is a very neat fella, has stood up, as he should have.

Let the rest of us also stand up.

Move forward and be ever on guard against the ills that tempt ALL of us!

Please folks, I been throuigh a lot in myu life and can tell you this:

I regret most of all harboring pain,guilt and pride.

Please, let us move onward.

No need to call names, no committee needed, TRUST..Team members ask each other DID YOU OBTAIN INFORMATION that yopu in normal circumstances would not have been privvy to?

I been married for over 20 years and will tell you a secret...its a work in progress

I love my sweetheart and she will tell you, I am her passion and her fire..me the often Grumpee Grandpa Troll, who gets his @zz on his shoulders, but when its all said and done we have grown together.

Cant you please, fellow Poly members, rise above the temptations to resist what will inevitably happen, and that is rebuild.

Please I implore you as a fellow demo game participant, pbem enthusianst, student of many of your lessons and a human being who knows how mistrust takes time to heal, pleads to move forward


This picture below reminds me of a valuable life lesson:

We took our grandson to a small zoo and he got scared and wanted to leave but on the way out we met the caretaker who let us feed these prairie dogs. My point is that my gandson got scared because of an unpleasant experience (A lama talking) and wanted to leave but after finding the prairie dogs all was better. In fact he had no reason to fear the Lama to start with.

Let us not fear what has happened but continue forward and enjoy what else we can explore and experience here folks, please

Thanks

Bruce K. Cronkite..a.k.a. Grandpa Troll

[Daddy-O]

Of course we can go on in the next game and continue on at this forum with no hard feelings. This game is poisoned and done. It is just a game so let's move on to the next one.

If we were playing cards and found out the cards were marked we would not continue playing.

[Moonbars]

I am so pleased we DR people left when we did. We no longer wished to participate in a game that contained the BoH (or more their unacceptable stlye of play) but I dont think any of us thought something like this was going on. All I can do is shake my head at what a huge waste of time this DG was.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Krill
Bugger.

Stop the game, for a moment, at least. Don't play on any more, until this issue is sorted.

Officially for right now Babylon is holding the save pending some resolution of whether to go forward with this game or not.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Daddy-O
I agree that some screening could be needed to prevent this. But, what other level of screening would there need to be? JTS/Planet were known to PTS, an admin. An Admin's word for someone should be enough, but the admin had the wool pulled over his eyes. So, screening would not have helped here.

If we start screening people before allowing them into games that makes this a closed community. That is not the Apolyton that I know and love. I have felt welcomed here since my first post. I'd hate to push new people away because of a handful that abused our trust.

This is probably the most critical point in all this Daddy-O. I too remember my early days when Jon Miller welcome me to Vox as a new and completely unknown member of Apolyton. I was welcome and trusted from day 1, which got me 'hooked' on this place immediately.

I raised this concern with Ming as well, for the very reasons you have stated. I am not sure what we do about it, but my philosophy towards people has always been to start from a basis of trust until given reason to think otherwise. Although this will have 'bruised' my philosophy a bit, bruises heal.

[Beta]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
Grandpa Troll sez:

........

Please, let us move onward.

No need to call names, no committee needed, TRUST..Team members ask each other DID YOU OBTAIN INFORMATION that you in normal circumstances would not have been privvy to?

.........

Cant you please, fellow Poly members, rise above the temptations to resist what will inevitably happen, and that is rebuild.

Please I implore you as a fellow demo game participant, pbem enthusianst, student of many of your lessons and a human being who knows how mistrust takes time to heal, pleads to move forward

......
Bruce K. Cronkite..a.k.a. Grandpa Troll

Gramps. Thank you for your post my friend.

You do speak directly, and from the heart. And you too have lifted me up some days after a hard day of RL stuff.

I also agree that we will move past this, one way or the other, and we will rebuild.

Now, where ar those prairie dogs.....

[Aqualung71]

It is now quite clear that this DL has resulted in the Horde having access to sensitive information about Babylon, Lost Boys and DR. All conversations between our three teams have the potential of having been infiltrated, which clearly gave the Horde a huge strategy advantage. They have used this advantage to their own benefit by the exact precision of their various war declarations - with the clearest and most despicable example being the surprise attack on DR, hitherto their ally. This is obvious.

Paddy once told me that the Horde has gained the advantage through diplomatic brilliance, by playing each of the other teams off against each other. It is now quite clear how that was achieved

DR was one of the strongest teams, but we were forced to abandon our empire due to the way the Horde played the game. Babylon had previously suggested to us that the Horde may have been cheating, due to our conversations with Babylon being repeated back to us by the Horde

It is therefore clear that this game has no merit. Any claim of victory by the Horde from this point on will be empty and ridiculed.

In my opinion, either the Horde should be disqualified, or the game abandoned.