Save Game Thread II: On the Eve of Destruction ...

[Ming]

Originally posted by Ljube
Does this mean that all users posting from Paddy's home will be punished and their logins deleted, except that of Paddy who will only be restricted?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

No... it means that a far deeper analysis will be done regarding all the involved log ons to see if time stamping and individual postings can better direct who was actually using the Planet log on.

Many different people log on from Paddy's home. Currently, JTS has been resticted based soley on Paddy saying that that is what happened.

The actual IP scans shows it could have been anybody that posts from his home, including JTS, Paddy, and Ruby.

It would take me probably 24 or more actual hours of work to go post by post to see if any proof can be found specifically pointing to any specific or multiple people. I have not had a chance to do so to date because of the time commitment needed. Right now, the whole issue is based on the fact that the posts came from Paddy's house, and Paddy's story that JTS is the one. While the first half is proven fact, the second half can not be proved at this time based on the original IP tracking.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ming



No... it means that a far deeper analysis will be done regarding all the involved log ons to see if time stamping and individual postings can better direct who was actually using the Planet log on.

Many different people log on from Paddy's home. Currently, JTS has been resticted based soley on Paddy saying that that is what happened.

The actual IP scans shows it could have been anybody that posts from his home, including JTS, Paddy, and Ruby.

It would take me probably 24 or more actual hours of work to go post by post to see if any proof can be found specifically pointing to any specific or multiple people. I have not had a chance to do so to date because of the time commitment needed. Right now, the whole issue is based on the fact that the posts came from Paddy's house, and Paddy's story that JTS is the one. While the first half is proven fact, the second half can not be proved at this time based on the original IP tracking.

An interesting process. We shall all anxiously await your results. And while you are trying to prove Paddy a liar, the rest of us will try to move forward with finding ways to heal this game and forum..."policing ourselves" as you asked.

[Ming]

Originally posted by PLATO
An interesting process. We shall all anxiously await your results. And while you are trying to prove Paddy a liar, the rest of us will try to move forward with finding ways to heal this game and forum..."policing ourselves" as you asked.

Frankly, this has more do with the site than your game.
DL's are a serious offense, and we would like to do everything in our power to make sure the guilty parties are dealt with. This goes FAR beyond just this game.

[Ljube]

DL's must not be tolerated.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Originally posted by PLATO


An interesting process. We shall all anxiously await your results. And while you are trying to prove Paddy a liar, the rest of us will try to move forward with finding ways to heal this game and forum..."policing ourselves" as you asked.

Well said PLATO well said indeed, Paddy is a good fellow and has done nothing wrong.

People need to remember Paddy is as shocked by this as everyone else and also that this is far more personal for him than the rest of us with the potentiel to cause major rifts between family members.

D/L's should be stamped out whenever they are caught but there should never be unfounded accusations flung around or even the merest suggestion of them without proof !!!

[Ming]

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
D/L's should be stamped out whenever they are caught but there should never be unfounded accusations flung around or even the merest suggestion of them without proof !!!

Flung around???? Only stating what the facts support.
There is no proof who in the DL is in this case, just where the DL posted from. Those are the facts!

I have made NO claim that Paddy or Ruby were running the DL. But I diid claim that there is no proof that clears either or proves it was JTS. Again... simple facts.

More research will have to be done to see if the facts supports the claims given... at this point in time, the facts don't support any specific findings except all IP's used came from Paddy's house.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ming in Dark Day for Demo Gaming Thread

I have looked at all the evidence and it supports the information that has been provided. However, as far as 100% proof, nobody but those involved will ever truly know.


...

I will say that action has been taken against the guilty.

...

we think we have taken the proper actions on our end.

...

It is now up to you guys to figure out what it means to the game you are playing.

First let me say to all that these are just parts of one post that I have pulled out to illustrate my point. In fairness I ask that you read the whole post here



Now as site rules dictate that noone is allowed to personally attack another member and that Ming himself is a huge proponent of this policy, the only conclusion that I can come up with is that there must have been additional evidence uncovered.

Obviously, Ming would never reopen this investigation just because he became mad at anyone.

So, I ask, Ming...Can you let us know what the new information uncovered was? All members of the Horde offer their help to you in getting this new data sorted.

[Ming]

Originally posted by PLATO
So, I ask, Ming...Can you let us know what the new information uncovered was? All members of the Horde offer their help to you in getting this new data sorted.

There are some people that don't buy the story and have asked for more information. In addition, I'm not pleased with the way your team has handled this... so more information could only be a good thing for all.

My first search had been simple IP checks... and they determined all posts came from Paddy's... when confronted, he said he would check, and then gave me the story of JTS. I had no reason to doubt him at the time... Any deerper post by post IP search is a long and boring process that could take me days to do.

When some people made complaints, I started the process... I have no conclusions yet, but I now know somethings don't add up. The good news is, a detailed search might prove Paddy's story... and then there would be no doubt... which there seems to be some now. However, in the end, I still might be where I am now... with only proof that the posts were made from Paddy's house.

I will continue the search...

[OPD]

Originally posted by Beta
OPD - to be clear - I am not judge/adjudicator in this. My purpose in proposing this was to find someway of moving on; of addressing this issue (healing?) and moving on; for the sake of demo gaming at Apolyton.

Good to hear Beta,

will try and catch you on MSN over the weekend to have a look at things???

Just between you and me, have you ever heard of another private forum where they post pictures of bouquets of flowers for each other on birthdays?

Originally posted by Ming
Frankly, this has more do with the site than your game.
DL's are a serious offense, and we would like to do everything in our power to make sure the guilty parties are dealt with. This goes FAR beyond just this game.

If need be this game can be moved to another forum, just say the word and I'll start asking around.

[Ming]

Originally posted by OPD
If need be this game can be moved to another forum, just say the word and I'll start asking around.

You are always free to do as you wish...

The problems that the DL has caused in this game have effects on all the games being played here. DL's and cheating will not be tolerated here, and offenders will be punished. Trust is critical in a gaming community, and must be maintained across the site. So we will continue to examine what has happened here for the good of the site, and the games being played on it.

[Beta]

Originally posted by OPD


Good to hear Beta,

will try and catch you on MSN over the weekend to have a look at things???

Just between you and me, have you ever heard of another private forum where they post pictures of bouquets of flowers for each other on birthdays?

If need be this game can be moved to another forum, just say the word and I'll start asking around.

I don't think that is a good idea, or what Ming was suggesting.

It started at Apolyton - it ends at Apolyton - one way or the other (at least IMHO). I for one, am not up for taking it elsewhere.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Beta


It started at Apolyton - it ends at Apolyton - one way or the other (at least IMHO). I for one, am not up for taking it elsewhere.

It would be nice if the site let us know that they wished all teams to continue here or not.

[Ming]

Originally posted by PLATO
It would be nice if the site let us know that they wished all teams to continue here or not.

And when did the site ever even raise this point????

Whether you continue the game or not is up to you...
If you decide to move the game, that is up to you...
Nobody has asked for the game to be moved.
These special forums were created for just that purpose.
The site welcomes all civ related games.

But that doesn't mean we aren't going to continue to examine the DL situation... That is a site issue.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ming


And when did the site ever even raise this point????

Never said the site did raise the point...just said it would be nice if they did.

Whether you continue the game or not is up to you...
If you decide to move the game, that is up to you...
Nobody has asked for the game to be moved.
These special forums were created for just that perpose.
The site welcomes all civ related games.

But that doesn't mean we aren't going to continue to examine the DL situation... That is a site issue.

Bolding added by me.

[Rubychaser]

Originally posted by Ming


There are some people that don't buy the story and have asked for more information. In addition, I'm not pleased with the way your team has handled this... so more information could only be a good thing for all.

My first search had been simple IP checks... and they determined all posts came from Paddy's... when confronted, he said he would check, and then gave me the story of JTS. I had no reason to doubt him at the time... Any deerper post by post IP search is a long and boring process that could take me days to do.

When some people made complaints, I started the process... I have no conclusions yet, but I now know somethings don't add up. The good news is, a detailed search might prove Paddy's story... and then there would be no doubt... which there seems to be some now. However, in the end, I still might be where I am now... with only proof that the posts were made from Paddy's house.

I will continue the search...

Friday night here in Australia. The people, who use the network that Pad cares enough to share, all sit and await results of your search.