Emperors at 20 Paces

[Aqualung71]

He still hasn't apologised!

[Daddy-O]

Senator Modo's arguments grow weak. Apologize already.

Emperor Auqualung71:
I see that you sued for peace. Although this was against the wishes of the Senate, and you did have time to consult us, I think that the Senate might have agreed with your proposed actions anyway. Peace with the Celts is the course that must now be followed if we wish to defeat the Carthaginians swiftly.

I accept your apology to the Senate. It is a testiment to your courage and honor. I ask that others do the same.

I will enter a similar post on the Senate Floor for the sake of historic record.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by conmcb25
I strongly support the efforts of Emporer Aquavian Lungarius here.

Although the advice of the Senate should always be heeded, it does not necessarily need to be followed to the letter.

And there are many different ways to approach our eventual takeover of the known world but I for one believe that a cripple Carthage first policy is the way to go.

Secure our south and then move against the Celts, while REXing to the east to cut off any Macedonian expansion to there north.

We need lots of population and even more land. This is the way to do it.

Put away your words and lets move forward with decisive action.

Long live Rome!

ALL HAIL THE EMPEROR

Long Live Rome!

[Aqualung71]

Emperor Conius, your timely entrance into this debate is welcome, and by the tone of your speech and the wisdom displayed in the content thereof, I am looking forward to your impending Emperorship.

Let the streets of Carthage run red with the blood of our most bitter foe during the reign of Emperor Conius, should he have sufficient time to prepare such a merciless strike

[conmcb25]

I strongly support the efforts of Emporer Aquavian Lungarius here.

Although the advice of the Senate should always be heeded, it does not necessarily need to be followed to the letter.

And there are many different ways to approach our eventual takeover of the known world but I for one believe that a cripple Carthage first policy is the way to go.

Secure our south and then move against the Celts, while REXing to the east to cut off any Macedonian expansion to there north.

We need lots of population and even more land. This is the way to do it.

Put away your words and lets move forward with decisive action.

Long live Rome!

[Gamecube64]

I smell political parties brewing.

[Aqualung71]

A pathetic response from a desperate man clutching at straws as he sees the tide turning against him.

The town in question had just completed a Barracks and was beginning to build defenders. A road was being built and would shortly be completed. Once must take calculated risks when necessary....the timing of this incident unfortunately went against us. That is all. Do not make more of it than it is, good sir!

And if my memory serves me correctly, you too left that town undefended while you sent pitifully few Legionaries northwards into Celtic territory.

And as I have already alluded to, the Legionaries had already been withdrawn from Celtic territory. The attack had been cancelled, with or without a peace treaty.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
I will also add at this time, that although I was already considering such a peace deal, the fact that Brennus has sent an Archer alongside the undefended Roman town of Segusio cemented my decision. This occurred as a road had not yet been completed to the town and so a defender could not be dispatched in time when the Archer appeared out of the mountains to the north. Not wishing to lose the town, nor indeed wishing our loyal citizens to suffer needlessly at the hands of barbarians, I immediately sued for peace.

Ahh, now it is clear. You have forced yourself to make peace by a grave error in military planning. That's the only name I know for leaving a border without defenses, while at war! And you dare challenge me after that?!

Originally posted by Aqualung71
The Emperor Modo would probably again call such an act in the face of the enemy cowardice.....however leaving an undefended town to its fate is stupidity rather than uncourageous.

Yes. It is definately stupidity that a city facing the enemy we're at war with is left without proper defenses. Where did you learn planning military operations, Emperor?

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Ah well you ought not to have omitted that detail earlier, but still it does indeed throw a different light on this issue.

I fully support your actions taken in the light of this previously unknown fact

[Aqualung71]

Firstly, indeed Senator ChrisiusMaximus is correct - Emperor Modo has branded me a coward regardless of how many dictionaries he wishes to use. I demand either full redress or a formal censure of the Senate involving the stripping of Emperor Modo's family vineyards from his possession . The honour of a Roman Emperor is not something to be trifled with!

On the issue of the peace deal with the Celts, I can clear up the doubt and perhaps add another pertinent fact that I have thus far omitted from the debate.

I sent my emissary directly to the barbarian Brennus to ask for peace, hoping to gain some nearby towns and cash. The nearby towns were not available, but as you know I did manage to procure 2 distant towns - difficult as they may be to defend in the short term against a surprise attack.

I will also add at this time, that although I was already considering such a peace deal, the fact that Brennus has sent an Archer alongside the undefended Roman town of Segusio cemented my decision. This occurred as a road had not yet been completed to the town and so a defender could not be dispatched in time when the Archer appeared out of the mountains to the north. Not wishing to lose the town, nor indeed wishing our loyal citizens to suffer needlessly at the hands of barbarians, I immediately sued for peace.

The Emperor Modo would probably again call such an act in the face of the enemy cowardice.....however leaving an undefended town to its fate is stupidity rather than uncourageous. I acted with the pragmatism that the Senate would expect of a balanced leader....and not with the reckless courage and abandon that some others may well advocate.

I hope in the light of this statement, that the Senate and in particular Senator ChrisiusMaximus can appreciate that under the circumstances I felt that consultation with the Senate was not required and that the obvious course of action was to immediately sue for peace and save our fight for another day. I did not intentionally set out to arrogantly disregard the Senate's wishes, and I hold that esteemed body in the highest of regard. If my bearing has appeared arrogant at times, it is because I have been confident of my reign and steadfast in my convictions, and I graciously offer an apology to any Senate member so offended (with the exception of the libelous Emperor Modo). As chosen leader, an Emperor must often walk a fine line between strength and acquiescence. I choose strength, and for that I offer no apology.

[Daddy-O]

...and I will take this to the Senate Floor.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Im pretty sure the former Emporer initiated the peace talks himslf, at least thats how it reads in his term report.

Peace with the Celts may be a good thing for us at this time, and consultation with the Senate may have received backing for such an initiative.

It is rightly stated by Senator Skrobism that the mechanics of this world of ours dont allow for consultations if the enemy has made the contact, a decision has to be taken!!

I do however believe from what has been put forward by Aquavian Lungarius that it was initiated by himself, and therefore I feel there is a case to be answered.

At this point though we can not undo what has been done, and I would propose that we the senate take this opportunity to tighten the Senatorial laws so as to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

[Daddy-O]

Well, well, well, I leave the Senate floor for a few hours and look what happens.

It is obvious that Emperors Aquavian Lungarius and Modo will not agree on the issues of the Celts and the definition of cowardice. So let us move on to the more important issue. The roles of the Senate and the Emperor.

An Emperor must be guided by the will of the people via the Senate or Rome will be no greater than our enemies. War and Peace are serious matters that must be decided on by the Senate when there is time for discussion. What were the circumstances of this peace treaty with the Heathen Celts? Did they come to the esteemed Emperor Aquavian Lungarius, or did he ignore the will of the Senate and offer peace out of fear that the Senate's grand plan would fail? This is important to understand.

An Emperor must be able to react to circumstances as the game unfolds. If the Celts came to Emperor Aquavian Lungarius, he needed to react right then. Telling the Celts that he needed to consult with the Apolyton Senate does not work in the mechanics of the game. The Emperor also needs to be able to react to sneak attacks from lesser nations that look to make a name for themselves by attacking our glorious Rome.

The report of turns seems to support the case that the Celts came begging for peace in 305BC -
"Brennus gave us 2 small and distant towns for our trouble – Noviodunum and Vesontio – plus 47g."
One does not surrender territory and gold easily. Excellent work Emperor Aquavian Lungarius.

I formally request to know the circumstances, that led to the peace treaty with the Celts, that now binds this Senate. We already know the reasoning and the results. We also know how the former Emperor views the voice of the Senate. So, most glorious Emperor Aquavian Lungarius, which is it? Did the heathen Celts beg for peace with mighty Rome; or did you seek peace against the will of the Roman Senate?

I hope this ends this matter and helps us with the future governance of Rome.

Long Live Rome!

[ChrisiusMaximus]

Senator Optimus Betarius, I too as well as Senator Aquavian Lungarius applaud your insight here but two things remain in my mind for sure.

The first thing is no matter which way the ducking and diving goes the word Courage is indelebly linked by defintion to the word coward!! in short both words mean the same thing And Senator Modo should be held accountable if he refuses to accept this truth.

The second is that an issue of considerable import such as the signing of a peace treaty with an enemy that the Senate has declared war upon is a matter for the whole Senate to debate!!! not for an individual to decide how best to proceed!!!

I would also like to add that Rome is not an Empire lorded over by an individual, it is as Ive already pointed out a REPUBLIC run by a Senate!!! As far as the timeline goes I am historically correct Senator Aquavian Lungarius, and infact the Empire as such did not occur for centuries from our current date!!!

You achieved many great things in your term which I have happily acknowleged already, but you should have spoken to the Senate regarding Peace with the Celts. Had you done so and presented the facts and your case Im of little doubt you would have received support for your plans, that is not the issue. The issue is your arrogance when challenged regarding this matter !!!

You show inexperience by your actions my honourable friend in that you seem not to recognise the need to keep your Senate informed of momentous decisions and regard the processes of Senatorial decision makeing to be a burden to your own will !!!

Woe to any Senator who thinks he is above the law !!!

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
Once again the Emperor Modo tries to play games with the English language.

I didn not, for all I know. (You made me use a dictionary, dang you. )

Originally posted by Aqualung71
The actual statement was:

Lack of courage <--> Cowardice

Please explain the difference Emperor, should you still wish to assert your above claim.

Very well, I will.

To me, a courageous man goes into battle without fear and is steadfast in his actions. He does not retreat from an enemy and often even seeks engagement. He will only avoid a fight that would be impossible to win. If a man is not courageous, he might be reluctant to fight when the odds are against him, but he will fight if he has to. He will rather not take risks, though, even if they could bring him benefits. However, lack of boldness does not constitute a coward. A coward would be someone who is afraid to fight at all and would rather try to flee the battlefield, instead of taking on an enemy.

You did fight where the fight came to you, Emperor - on Sicily and near Massilia. And you didn't retreat, you even took a city that was already under siege by Roman troops. So no, Emperor, I have no reason to call you a coward. But you didn't want to take a risk by attacking the Celts. A risk which, in my opinion, was acceptable. So no, Emperor, I can't call you courageous either.


As I mentioned, we don't share the opinion about the Celts and how to handle them. And no arguments can change that, because we cannot be sure how the barbarians (and other nations) will progress. So please, let's end this discussion.