The Senate Floor

[Paddy]

is that right Sir

looking forward to your upcoming poll as you take your Rod of the Empire

[Paddy]

woo hoo Long Live the Celts

- Paddy the Scot




oh please remember in the tracts of time that these great nations became staunch allies and friends forever

they were known for their amazing technological breakthroughs, medical miracles, and leading our people into the stars

yes, we forsee a great future with now that this has come to pass



well my knowledge on these matters is provided by my good friend Arthur Dent

[Paddy]

Greetings Senators

Our initial Emperors have a an issue that needs to be settled at:

Emperors at 20 Paces

lets please keep this discussion clean


Paddy of Rome

[Daddy-O]

Long live Arthur Dent!

[Daddy-O]

Based on the questions raised by "20 Paces" I motion that an investigation be started, or at least that the Emperor Aquavian Lungarius answer to the Senate on his actions.

I formally request to know the circumstances, that led to the peace treaty with the Celts, that now binds this Senate. We already know the reasoning and the results. We also know how the former Emperor views the voice of the Senate. So, most glorious Emperor Aquavian Lungarius, which is it? Did the heathen Celts beg for peace with mighty Rome; or did you seek peace against the will of the Roman Senate?

Long Live Rome!

[Aqualung71]

Honourable Senator skrobism, I have answered your charges here.

Furthermore, it has now been 42 hours since Emperor Modo branded my good self as a coward, and 36 hours since I demanded he withdraw the slur and apologise unreservedly. He has since steadfastly refused to do so, and in fact has continued to justify his position and claim that I lacked courage in carrying out the duties of Emperor.

I demand justice. I request that the Senate issue a summary judgement stripping the Emperor Modo of his honourary title of Emperor, disbar him from the Senate, and confiscate his estates and all worldly chattels.

I ask not to profit from his property.....only that his daughters be provided to my household as slave girls to do with as I please.

[snoopy369]

I think part of the problem is nobody exactly understands the definitions of "Senate", "Emperor", and "Republic".

Rome at no point had both a meaningful Senate and an Emperor. Her first emperor was Julius Caesar, although he did not formally claim the title. Augustus Caesar claimed it first.

The Senate in 300 BC ruled Rome directly, as an oligarchy in all but name. They ruled Rome militarily as well as domestically, but in the military their hand was much ... weaker. Two Consuls were always invested with equal military power, their armies the sum total of Roman projected military power; other military forces stayed at garrisons throughout the Empire, which at this point consisted of the Italian peninsula and the beginnings of an advance into Sicily and Iberia. Rome at this point endowed two consuls because she was afraid of the power of a single person; the two consuls had equal power and equal military might, and equal ability to use it. When seperate, they retained full control of their legions; when together, they retained full control on alternating days of the entire force. This often led to comical situations, in which one Consul would support aggressive action and one defensive, and although they would never directly counter each others' moves, they would always seek to reign in the other's actions.

Only rarely did Rome feel the need to place full power in the hands of one man. Cincinnatus, the great Roman general a century and some beforehand, was the first, and perhaps the model for all to come after him, Dictator. Such a man is given control over the Roman forces for a short period of time, in the hope of defeating whatever dire enemy is at hand. Then he relinquishes power voluntarily to the Senate.

Both Consul and Dictator share two things in common: Nearly ultimate power, and an ultimate responsibility to answer to the Senate for their actions. Neither, however, is required to answer to the Senate before the end of their term. Of course, if they wish to be elected a second term (as Consul - nobody would ever be elected again a Dictator), they should follow the Senate's instructions, or else they should show good reason for their acts. However, during their term, they do not generally answer to the Senate, nor do they generally come back at all.

Don't forget, we're talking of a time period when it takes *months* to travel from the "action" to the home city of Rome. Asking the Consul or Dictator to return and check back every so often would be a horrible waste of time and make it impossible to lead ones' forces effectively.

I suggest that we simply ask ourselves: Did Aqualung make the decision he should have made? Given the circumstances (and perhaps ask him these circumstances), should he have done what he did, and would we have agreed with it?

If the ultimate answer is "Yes", then we are agreed that Aqualung has acted in good faith with his post, and we should ask him to continue his course (once it comes up again). If the answer is "No", then perhaps we reconsider his right to the position.

I also suggest we define the position we have made. Perhaps "Emperor" is a mistaken term, particularly if the Senate expects the degree of control some members have expressed the desire for. Perhaps "Consul" or even "Princeps" are better titles?

[snoopy369]

I also suggest we determine whether the voice of the Senate was as it has been purported to be.

The threads of Aqualung's emperorship are pitifully sparse in direction. Each Senator speaks with a separate voice, but there is no clear Voice of the Senate. Look at the poll -- over half of the Senate would have Emperor Aqualung expand into the north (8 out of 15), yet now it is claimed he should have made war on the Celts (which essentially precludes settling in the north effectively). The most substantial Voice of the Senate is to invade the various islands around Rome - which does not sound like a desire to invade up North. Individual Senators did indeed post their desire to invade the Celts, but the Senate is not a body of individuals, so much as a One greater than the sum of its parts.

Perhaps in the future, debate should be allowed for a greater amount of time, and should be moderated by someone -- the Princeps, I would call him or her -- who can encourage debate on specific points, so as to cause the Emperor to have a concrete understanding of the desires of the Senate. I think it is a lack of clear voice that is the problem here, not specific malfeasance on any one person's part.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

this is why we should have had elected consuls originally, but alas we do not.

The war with the Celts was voted for during Modo's reign which he undertook.

I do feel that we need more not less debate and perhaps a review of the laws of our nation.

I do feel however in the light of new information regarding Aquavian Lungarius's peace treaty with the Celts which he has made public in the 20 paces thread, that he was right to make peace with the Celts and it was in Romes best interests that he did so.

[Aqualung71]

I have consistently asked for the opinions of the Senate, yet as Senator Snoopy rightly points out, opinions have only trickled in. I would welcome a more active and lively debate by more members of the Senate.

The objective of the Poll (as I see it) is to get a general feel for the Senate's views on how to proceed. As Senator Snoopy alludes to, and as we all know from our vast combined experience, there are many things to be done, but not all can be done at once. Hence we assign priorities. The final decision, as laid out in Senator PPP Paddy's Book of Law, is in the hands of the Emperor.

[jagjef]

As a Counsul of Rome, Senator Jagjef supports Aqualung's actions. The Celt is for later Emperors to deal with, Carthago is our main goal to defeat early.

[Paddy]

well said Senator Aqua

Now has anyone seen Emperor Conious ???

The days of his reign are trickling over

[Aqualung71]

Senator ChrisiusMaximus, in the absence of any movement on the important issues at hand, I respectfully ask you to draft a censure motion of former Emperor Modo to be put forth at the next full Senate session. Indeed, an emergency Senate meeting may be in order to deal with the renegade Modo.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Aqualung71
Senator ChrisiusMaximus, in the absence of any movement on the important issues at hand, I respectfully ask you to draft a censure motion of former Emperor Modo to be put forth at the next full Senate session. Indeed, an emergency Senate meeting may be in order to deal with the renegade Modo.

ahhh Senator Modo, does this former Emperor really need censuring ???

He also served as your Consul / Advisor, when you were Emperor.

He served well as our initial Emperor, and is again serving Rome here in the Senate.

[Nimitz]

* Nimitz signs the senate roll.

Edit: uh oh, wrong place O'well.