Confirmation of panag as VP

[Togas]

The Vice Presidency is a very important position as this is the person who assume full Presidential powers if our President dissapears due to snowstorm, fried CPU, family emergency, or other real life hazards.

I would feel comfortable seeing Panag in this job if he can demonstrate the ability to lead and manage this great and complex nation of ours, but I have yet seen that, as he has never before served in public office.

Perhaps Panag's casual and obtuse style is just him being humorous. I don't know. I would like to see some serious planning, commentary, organization or the like first before I feel comfortable giving him the backup Pres job.

--Togas

[Shiber]

Relating to some of the things that have been said in this thread:

Originally posted by panag
panag has always been there from the start , sometimes asking for things that seemes completely kiwi like , but in the end his words prevailed

OK, give us one example.

Originally posted by dejon
I mentioned in a thread just the other day that while some of his posts were confusing, others had geniune insight in them.

I honestly can't think of any.
In any case, I'm not going to vote for a VP candidate whose posts are often so vague that they can be interpreted in so many ways, even if some of those interpretations make some, though little, sense.

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
The VP is an extremely important and strategic position. I would gladly vote for panag in a smaller office but would like to see the results of him being serious at least once before supporting him in a position this important. I do not view these offices as popularity contests but as serious positions to strive towards winning the game.

Well spoken!

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
So yes from me. I guess I have one question Panag....

Can you be direct, clear and dependable?

Originally posted by panag
"yes"

Is this a promise that we can rely on Panag? Or are you going to come and disappear again without warning like you did for the last several months. And why the quotation marks around your answer?

-----

As for my reasons for voting no,
1. Panag has never contributed to the game in any way, in my opinion. Yes, he may have contributed to the atmosphere and entertained us several times, but not to the actual game.
2. I CANNOT vote for someone who often doesn't have any idea what is going on in the game!! I've seen him posting about the war with Persia and how we should show Xerxes and get the Pyramids over a month after it was over. I've seen him posting countless times about things that have already been discussed over a week ago, sometimes in the same thread!
A VP has to participate in the game, not come and go as Panag does.
3. Panag has never participated in any turnchats. As far as I know he doesn't even know how a turnchat looks like, or that these days turnchats can last for 8 hours. How can he commit to being able to hold turnchats if he has no past experience? I don't know about you, but his promise seems completely devoid of any actual backing, especially given his past patterns of behavior and posting in this game.
4. Take no personal offense in this Panag (like you unjustifiably have several times before), but I strongly doubt that you'd be able to understand the New Con, given your somewhat problematic language skills.

Honestly, I have loads of reasons why not to vote for Panag which are not personal, but I feel that these are the major four, and they're certainly enough to convince me not to vote for this candidate.

[rush]

Originally posted by Shiber
I honestly can't think of many.
In any case, I'm not going to vote for a VP candidate whose posts are often so vague that they can be interpreted in so many ways, even if some of those interpretations make some, though little, sense.

Sounds like Greenspan ?

Like many others, I am not convinced and holding my vote till the last day.

[Shiber]

Oops, I meant to write "I honestly can't think of any".

[Nolan]

I'm new and I know my words may not mean much but in the case of VP I voted yes.
I have spent a number of hours reading over the constitution and also over peoples comments inside the forum, and I got the impression that panag was a figure that was willing to speak his mind in his own way, and I also got the feeling that there are people out there that respect him for that.
Many of the decisions that have to be made in the process of running a government are often cryptic and confusing and he simply adds a fresh way of thinking, which is a main job of any VP, helping broaden the Presidents frame of mind.
I have no doubt this vote of confidence will be close and I wish panag luck

[SABRA]

Some people might want to drop the attitude the show here , its an outrightshame to see that some people post ludicrous things about someone else while they themselfs spend half the time posting nothing more then the same things you acuse panag of .

Shiber , a long time before many of you came to the game he arrived to the game , constantly asking for things like the the save , turnthreads , explore this , go there , we need this , we need that , we need a constitution , we need a supreme court , ........ yes it gets sometimes on your system , but in the end he always came true and most of the things panag has asked where "born" .

Vague posts , well many of us , including some people here do it all the time , so are we starting now to look at our selfs or just at one player who is in the end not so different from us ?

Before many of us post here they would do good to look at themselfs , many here have posted about subjects that where completely foolish .

To whom do we thank the senate , to whom do we thank so many little things ? yes panag has done a lot , both on and off site .

As for his experience , well he has it , just ask him .

As a last remark i would like to point out that many of you should forget the OT forum , because this is what this election starts to smell like in the end ; OT !

One of his motto's he has always trying to get across but forgotten by many is this ; Together
Everyone
Achieves
More

If you really want a great leader in case something goes wrong , well he has it all .

[UnOrthOdOx]

Pop in once a week and look what you get to see.

I am well aware that many people have strong feelings toward panag. My opinion is that it is truly a shame that he has not been given an oportunity to serve our nation before. Yes, there have been times that his posts have been confusing at first glance, but when you actually look at them, many show some great intelligence behind their intent. Just because someone does not have a total grasp of the english language is not reason to withhold them from office.

panag has had many ideas, and was in fact instrumental in my own organizational efforts during my term as VP. Both through PM and posts on the forum he helped me to come up with the ideas I used to organize and provide information while many others were more content simply complaining rather than providing input. I attempted to offer panag a judicial role at the time but was...persuaded...out of it. panag will do a fine job as VP, and I have full confidence that he will be able to take over if needed.

Shiber, you question his ability to attend chats. Would you have questioned the same if I was still active and chosen to run? I have never attended a full chat myself, is 'past experience' such a thing to judge on?

Togas, how can someone demonstrate the ability to lead without first having the chance?

Besides, we will all have that many more 'nice day' posts should he win.

[Meshelic]

hi

panag you are a shoe in, good luck, glad to see some new blood in our government.

have a nice day



...... Good luck panag, you may be a DIA cronie but I respect your willingness to participate, and hope that you can bring a breath of fresh air to our nation.

(Shameless advertisement)
JOIN THE LABOR PARTY!
(yes, I'm terrible I know...)

[SABRA]

Originally posted by Shiber
Is this a promise that we can rely on Panag? Or are you going to come and disappear again without warning like you did for the last several months. And why the quotation marks around your answer?

-----

As for my reasons for voting no,
1. Panag has never contributed to the game in any way, in my opinion. Yes, he may have contributed to the atmosphere and entertained us several times, but not to the actual game.
2. I CANNOT vote for someone who often doesn't have any idea what is going on in the game!! I've seen him posting about the war with Persia and how we should show Xerxes and get the Pyramids over a month after it was over. I've seen him posting countless times about things that have already been discussed over a week ago, sometimes in the same thread!
A VP has to participate in the game, not come and go as Panag does.
3. Panag has never participated in any turnchats. As far as I know he doesn't even know how a turnchat looks like, or that these days turnchats can last for 8 hours. How can he commit to being able to hold turnchats if he has no past experience? I don't know about you, but his promise seems completely devoid of any actual backing, especially given his past patterns of behavior and posting in this game.
4. Take no personal offense in this Panag (like you unjustifiably have several times before), but I strongly doubt that you'd be able to understand the New Con, given your somewhat problematic language skills.

Honestly, I have loads of reasons why not to vote for Panag which are not personal, but I feel that these are the major four, and they're certainly enough to convince me not to vote for this candidate.

hi ,

Shiber before you point a finger at someone here are some answers ;

1 ) He has never left for more then two days , and even those times can be counted on one hand .
2 ) The come and go as you mention it , is that because its you actually who comes and go's so often
3 ) Well he is one of those guys who never takes any offense , unlike yourself
4 ) "Language" , well shall we then also mention the fact that you seem to critice everyone when it comes to that , yet you would fail yourself when it comes to this subject from time to time .
5 ) At least panag has never posted any Private Messages in a public forum
6 ) "Behavior" , well *cough* mirrors are cheap these days Shiber
7 ) Turnchats , well before you ever knew what one looks like he used to host them
8 ) Before you make any more personal attack against panag or me or anyone else again , would you not look at yourself and ask "what have i ever done wrong"
9 ) Never has anyone put Shiber true the mud , yet why do you keep doing this over and over again to others ?
10 ) Why do you always want to have the last word , why do you want to be always such a negative person about others ?
11 ) Neither this site or this game are a place of hatred a blame , so why do you like to jump always on people's backs ?
12 ) Would you maybe like it if some people started to point out here some of your mishaps ?
13 ) Are you maybe trying ones more to get the focus away from the real subject and are you trying ones more to get the upper hand ?
14 ) Your reply is not needed , so save it , because it shall be the same as always , Shiber trying to get the upper hand , Shiber the person who never makes a single error , Shiber the perfect one .
15 ) Even with all of this , well as panag would say , "have a nice day"
16 ) Shiber you would do good to read and understand you signature ones in a while .


edit ; Added number 16

[Meshelic]

Originally posted by SABRA


hi ,

Shiber before you point a finger at someone here are some answers ;

1 ) He has never left for more then two days , and even those times can be counted on one hand .
2 ) The come and go as you mention it , is that because its you actually who comes and go's so often
3 ) Well he is one of those guys who never takes any offense , unlike yourself
4 ) "Language" , well shall we then also mention the fact that you seem to critice everyone when it comes to that , yet you would fail yourself when it comes to this subject from time to time .
5 ) At least panag has never posted any Private Messages in a public forum
6 ) "Behavior" , well *cough* mirrors are cheap these days Shiber
7 ) Turnchats , well before you ever knew what one looks like he used to host them
8 ) Before you make any more personal attack against panag or me or anyone else again , would you not look at yourself and ask "what have i ever done wrong"
9 ) Never has anyone put Shiber true the mud , yet why do you keep doing this over and over again to others ?
10 ) Why do you always want to have the last word , why do you want to be always such a negative person about others ?
11 ) Neither this site or this game are a place of hatred a blame , so why do you like to jump always on people's backs ?
12 ) Would you maybe like it if some people started to point out here some of your mishaps ?
13 ) Are you maybe trying ones more to get the focus away from the real subject and are you trying ones more to get the upper hand ?
14 ) Your reply is not needed , so save it , because it shall be the same as always , Shiber trying to get the upper hand , Shiber the person who never makes a single error , Shiber the perfect one .
15 ) Even with all of this , well as panag would say , "have a nice day"

I object to this. Sabra you had already made your point in the first post, at this point this is just going a little too far. To list 15 POINTS of finger pointing towards Shiber is intolerable, and definetely not needed, REGARDLESS of what Shiber's opinions of panag are. I agree that Shiber may have been overly harsh, but don't believe he is intentionally trying to attack panag personally.

To respond to a personal attack with even more personal attacks is not right at all. Two wrongs DO NOT make a right.

I denounce this argument as childish and petty, and not in the best interests of ANYONE here. I like Shiber, but I also like panag too. Neither of them deserve the accusations that have surfaced here. This argument should stop right now before it gets worse. I don't wish to see the end result of an accusation-fest, believe me, I watched the Mr.Orange/Reddawg case go down (like many others) and was greatly saddened that we lost two great citizens.

END THIS NOW!



Meshelic

/edit okay now you've added one more accusation to the list. Sabra, read your 11th accusation. Perhaps you should follow your own lead?

[Shiber]

Originally posted by SABRA
Some people might want to drop the attitude the show here , its an outrightshame to see that some people post ludicrous things about someone else while they themselfs spend half the time posting nothing more then the same things you acuse panag of .

You've made a fundamental fallacy: this poll isn't about the voters, it's about the nominee. The fact that sometimes, some people do the same things that Panag does which irritate people or make them think less of Panag does not excuse Panag's behavior; the fact that others may be independable is not an excuse to forget the fact that Panag is independable; and so on.
When you cast your vote for prime minister / president in your own country and you hear that a certain candidate is, for example, involved in corruption, you don't think to yourself "hey, I touched dirty money once myself so it's OK or excusable", you think to yourself "I may be dirty but I want a leader that is clean!" and give your vote to the other nominee.
Besides, even if this plea was relevant, it's completely baseless. Noone here behaves like Panag does. I'd like to see you try to prove otherwise.

Shiber , a long time before many of you came to the game he arrived to the game , constantly asking for things like the the save , turnthreads , explore this , go there , we need this , we need that , we need a constitution , we need a supreme court , ........ yes it gets sometimes on your system , but in the end he always came true and most of the things panag has asked where "born" .

Give one example of one way that Panag has contributed to the game. Just one.

Vague posts , well many of us , including some people here do it all the time , so are we starting now to look at our selfs or just at one player who is in the end not so different from us ?

Noone in here speaks as vaguely as Panag does, not even you. I have trouble even reading (let alone understanding) his posts, and I find that even if I try to understand them, about 40% of his posts remain a complete mystery to me even after I've read them for three or four times. Apparently I'm not the only one.
I'm sorry, but one of the most basic traits that a public servant, especially one so high-ranked as the Vice President has to have is the ability to speak clearly.
So far all public servants were required and have in fact demonstrated above-average language skills, and some, such as Togas, Arnelos and others, have spoken very impressively about issues.
I think the same job requirements apply on Panag. He is not required to hold speeches, but at least he needs to be understood when writing reports or during turnchats.

Before many of us post here they would do good to look at themselfs , many here have posted about subjects that where completely foolish .

Not every one here makes sense, has insights or contributes to the game in any way, though everyone is more than welcome. However, if one runs for a public office he must prove that he is fit for the job.
So far, everyone who was elected to a public office was a citizen who has greatly contributed to this game even before he was elected. Panag is also required to prove to us that he is capable. So far he hasn't.
Anyway, I've already explained why the behaviour of some of the voters is irrelevant to this discussion. Let's move on.

To whom do we thank the senate , to whom do we thank so many little things ? yes panag has done a lot , both on and off site .

So Panag is responsible for the creation of the Senate? No, SABRA. The people who participate, not just drop in and out randomly, are to thank for the Senate. The people in the NewCon Convention who worked so hard on this fine papaer are to thank for the system. The people who posted, who protested, who suggested, who participated, are to thank for the system.
Don't try to make Panag into something that he isn't. He is not "to thank" for the Senate. I don't think posts like "no, the court is fine to control the budget, ....." are contributive, and I certainly don't thank Panag for clogging up threads with such vague announcements.

As for his experience , well he has it , just ask him .

Panag has experience in running a turnchat? AFAIK, and according to what I've heard from others, Panag has never even participated in a single turnchat. If so, your remark is an outright lie - he cannot have the experience necessary to serve as VP if he has never even seen a turnchat, let alone took part in one.
I've got all the reasons in the world to doubt Panag's ability to control a turnchat, and certainly not a full turnchat (one that, nowadays, can last for 8 hours!!).

As a last remark i would like to point out that many of you should forget the OT forum , because this is what this election starts to smell like in the end ; OT !

Huh?
Sorry, I don't quite follow.

One of his motto's he has always trying to get across but forgotten by many is this ; Together
Everyone
Achieves
More

That's just a blank slogan. What's your point?

If you really want a great leader in case something goes wrong , well he has it all .

Even if he is elected, he will be impeached as soon as possible after he screws up his first turnchat.
I'm saying that because I have no faith in Panag whatsoever. I want a VP that I can trust, a person that I can depend on, and Panag simply isn't the ticket.

[SABRA]

Originally posted by Meshelic


I object to this. Sabra you had already made your point in the first post, at this point this is just going a little too far. To list 15 POINTS of finger pointing towards Shiber is intolerable, and definetely not needed, REGARDLESS of what Shiber's opinions of panag are.

To respond to a personal attack with even more personal attacks is not right at all. Two wrongs DO NOT make a right.

I denounce this argument as childish and petty, and not in the best interests of ANYONE here. I like Shiber, but I also like panag too. Neither of them deserve the accusations that have surfaced here. This argument should stop right now before it gets worse. I don't wish to see the end result of an accusation-fest, believe me, I watched the Mr.Orange/Reddawg case go down (like many others) and was greatly saddened that we lost two great citizens.

END THIS NOW!



Meshelic

Meshelic , a long time ago , before you where born in that nice house on palace street some things happend .
Things that no-one wants to talk about , but when you open a can that you know contains worms , well dont expect it to be pleasant .
Its a given fact that some people like to attack others in whatever way they can without giving a dime about the outcome .
If shiber would not have posted his unpleasant personal (by no means at all neutral post) then i would have not posted .
However i am willing to drop it , in turn i expect that Shiber does the same not only in this thread but in all threads .
Meshelic (and fellow citizens) there is a great difference between facts and so-called accusations there is a mile of difference , Shiber does seems to know that difference . Aldo he has promised many times he would never again attack anyone ever again .

[Shiber]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
My opinion is that it is truly a shame that he has not been given an oportunity to serve our nation before.

I wouldn't mind if Panag would serve in a public position, should he be elected. In fact, I'd most likely encourage it.
However, one who hasn't publicly proven himself yet should not go into an office so high-ranked as the VP's office. If he wants to participate in the government, he should try for a job with less responsibility first.

To elaborate on this subject I'd like to remind you of Jonny. He ran I-don't-know-how-many-times for the position of Minister of Imperial Expansion and finally got elected for the last term that this office existed. By then REXing was over and he had very little work to do.
However, Jonny had managed to prove himself in other ways before he ran to office, while he was running to office several times, while he was in office and afterwards. He was full of good ideas and he shared them with the community and made a good impression (at least on me). Panag has the same chances to impress people that Jonny had, yet he did not use these chances as far as I've noticed. Why should he be given favorable conditions? Why should he be given a high-ranked public office just so he could "prove himself" (which is a precedence, I'm sure)?

Shiber, you question his ability to attend chats. Would you have questioned the same if I was still active and chosen to run?

Absolutely. However, since in the past you have demonstrated great skills and made a really good impression on me, I'd be more inclined to vote for you than I am inclined to vote for Panag.

[SABRA]

Double Post

[SABRA]

Originally posted by Shiber


I wouldn't mind if Panag would serve in a public position, should he be elected. In fact, I'd most likely encourage it.
However, one who hasn't publicly proven himself yet should not go into an office so high-ranked as the VP's office. If he wants to participate in the government, he should try for a job with less responsibility first.

To elaborate on this subject I'd like to remind you of Jonny. He ran I-don't-know-how-many-times for the position of Minister of Imperial Expansion and finally got elected for the last term that this office existed. By then REXing was over and he had very little work to do.
However, Jonny had managed to prove himself in other ways before he ran to office, while he was running to office several times, while he was in office and afterwards. He was full of good ideas and he shared them with the community and made a good impression (at least on me). Panag has the same chances to impress people that Jonny had, yet he did not use these chances as far as I've noticed. Why should he be given favorable conditions? Why should he be given a high-ranked public office just so he could "prove himself" (which is a precedence, I'm sure)?



Absolutely. However, since in the past you have demonstrated great skills and made a really good impression on me, I'd be more inclined to vote for you than I am inclined to vote for Panag.

You still dont know when to stop do you ? You really dont seem to understand anything do you ?

Maybe its because you yourself are after a job ?
And then to think that panag presented you several times for a job , ........
Panag you really are fool to say that he shall be a good and responsable person , some of the posters here are younger then 12 and they know better .