Persia: Peace, Quick War, or Total Conquest?

[Donegeal]

One thing I've learned about the AI is that to them, war and workers don't mix. It they have a worker there, they won't attack until its finished. The fact that we have a weak army compared to them is all the more reason to build our Army for the conquest of Persia.

Kill Persia! Strangle them with their own ROP(e)!

[MrWhereItsAt]

I would favour no great extension of our borders on Abananaba Major beyond incorporating America. Look at our French cities - barely productive, and the Persian cities we would take would be likewise until we can quickly build the FP (which we cannot do yet). Denying Persian Iron is all well and good, but a further protracted war will only open us up as an even bigger target. Who knows? - Persia may just convince someone like Germany or Greece into war with us, and that could be disastrous with the weakened defensive state of some of our cities.

I don't rule out the possibility of war with Persia, but please let us consolidate what we have first with defenses and a veteran army up to the challenge of taking - and holding - Persian cities.

[GhengisFarb™]

We have to take Tyre and Sidon and move them east. Persia is the single greatest threat to us if they are not weakened considerably now.

[Donegeal]

MRWIA, would let the Great Pyramids Of Persepolis go when they are so close to your grasp? If you want consolidation, would it not help to have a grainery in every city? Would not our people be happy despite the larger population with wounderous spices and Incense? Could we not sell the extra Lux to get many Lpt (which would enable us to rush buy many things). Might we not get a GL (or two) from a prolonged war with an inferior foe? There are just too many upsides to really taking it to the Persians.

Plus, you gave them your trust and look what they did to us... to you.

MAKE THEM PAY!!

[Panag]

hi ,

tyre and sidon , .... and some tech , gold and world map , ....



but we should try to stay within reason , we may not forget there are other species out there that would like to have a piece of our skin , ....

have a nice day

[Togas]

We want to win this game, right? We don't want to just have a respectable nation, we want to end on top.

To win, we need to be stronger, richer, more advanced, and more productive than our neighbors. We don't have the production benefits of the AI, nor the peacekeeping benefits.

I'm not in favor of war for war's sake, but Persia has two things that I feel we desperately need for our nation to grow: Luxuries and the Pyramids.

With incense and spices, in addition to wines and dyes, our population in all our cities can grow two higher without substantial public subsidies into luxuries. The Pyramids will nearly double our growth rate.

Their land is fantanstic, but only if we get a Forbidden Palace built. Frankly, all of their empire will stagnate in corruption under our hands. We can't count on it for production until we deal with the size of our nation and build a second capitol.

But by removing the Persian threat while they're weak, adding two luxuries, and gaining the Pyramids, I feel we are benefiting the future of our nation. We lose no reputation in this war. They broke a treaty and sneak attacked us. Furthermore, our production for this war will raise our military strength and deter our foolish neighbors from considering an attack.

I see too many good reasons to continue this war, and I hope that the citizens of Apolytonia will agree. However, if the results of this poll turn are not in favor of a long term war of conquest with Persia, I will follow the will of the people.

--Togas

[Proserpine]

Take out T&S, then peace. We need to develop.

[OPD]

OMG I can't belive conquest is winning.

We are already overstreched as it is. With uber isle and the US being sitting ducks we already have plenty of land to expand into.

The Persians are quite strong and are likely to get others to join the war by giving theology/ money.

We don't have the infra-structure to support a war on this scale and this war would put us further behind in terms of infrastructure.

Our cities are badly defended as it is, we can't be building offensive units instead.

Persia may offer more but the risk is too great when we could take what the US has with ease and almost no risk.

[Togas]

Dispelling Myths about Persia

To ease the fears of some that have previously posted, the following are the facts:

Persia has 24g and Theology. Germany, Greece, and Russia all have Theology. It is unlikely that Persia will be able to pull in Greece or Germany as allies. Germany just signed a 20 turn peace treaty with us, France as well is under a peace treaty. Greece is at war with England and the Aztecs.

The only viable ally would come from Abananaba minor.

Persia does not have Chivalry, but if it attains it, the only unit it would have would be Longbowmen. Without iron, it cannot build knights. Longbowmen can be killed easily by horsemen.

With peace, Persia finally locks onto Iron, and then either picks us or the English to invade with knights late Middle Ages.

Production? We keep border cities building defense, core cities do culture/science production, eastern cities build just a few more warriors that upgrade to swordsmen (no one has Chivalry) and a few pikemen, then add one settler to Uber Isle and let it build for itself. That will sastify all our needs.

Lastly, we need a Forbidden Palace. We also badly need a GL. We can possibly get both through a continued war with Persia.

This is not just the best time, this is the ideal time! Our neighbors are either tied up in war, or tied up with peace treaties. Persia will never be weaker. We can afford to do both development and war, as our war units are easy to produce. And in the end, we double our luxuries and capture a wonder of the world.

--Togas

[DAVOUT]

The first three wars were too easy, although they were won by very little. The Persian war could also be easy but it will cost us a delay in building which will make almost impossible to react in case of attack by a strong civ.

If we go to the conquest, at least let a significant defence force in the heart of the empire.

[OPD]

Hmmmmn

Do you think you'd be able to this off using only the offensive units we currently have?

I mean all of them including the ones stationed in France.

[Aro]

If we could, we should. The Pyramids never expires, if I'm not wrong.

[Aggie]

OPD, I'm neither endorsing a war of conquest or not, I'm just explaining what we can do(not necessarily should do). A note we are still at least 6 turns from tyre sidon attack, so we will have time.
Currently we will have the following force that could get involved in the attack on sidon/tyre
2horse, 4 reg sword,
+2 reg sword would be available during the attack on sidon.
We have or will have 2eilte,3vet swords that will be available by the time we get to antioch/gordium(these are coming from france 3 on land 2 by boat.
This gives us 11sword(2e,3v,6r),2horse(2v) for the initial operation. Also I am planning on upgrading 1 or 2 spear to pikeman for defense, imagine their reg archers attacking our vet pike in jungle.
This force could take the 4 initial cities.
It probably could not go further( I estimate in would stand at 7sw,2horse at this time, -2/3 sword for garrison leaves us 4sw,2horse)
Also this would leave a good force in french front.
To go further I would like 3 horse, and 4 sword all vet.
This is just so everybody knows what we are looking at.
I also am assuming we will average 1 sword lost per city.
Aggie

[Panag]

Originally posted by Aggie
OPD, I'm neither endorsing a war of conquest or not, I'm just explaining what we can do(not necessarily should do). A note we are still at least 6 turns from tyre sidon attack, so we will have time.
Currently we will have the following force that could get involved in the attack on sidon/tyre
2horse, 4 reg sword,
+2 reg sword would be available during the attack on sidon.
We have or will have 2eilte,3vet swords that will be available by the time we get to antioch/gordium(these are coming from france 3 on land 2 by boat.
This gives us 11sword(2e,3v,6r),2horse(2v) for the initial operation. Also I am planning on upgrading 1 or 2 spear to pikeman for defense, imagine their reg archers attacking our vet pike in jungle.
This force could take the 4 initial cities.
It probably could not go further( I estimate in would stand at 7sw,2horse at this time, -2/3 sword for garrison leaves us 4sw,2horse)
Also this would leave a good force in french front.
To go further I would like 3 horse, and 4 sword all vet.
This is just so everybody knows what we are looking at.
I also am assuming we will average 1 sword lost per city.
Aggie

hi ,

, great plan , lets go for it

have a nice day

[OPD]

Aggie
With regard to ming production
BHQ is currently producing a horseman which I guess you are already counting on having for the attack. As for the other cities would you like more offensive units or would it be ok if we build pikemen to take the place of the swordsmen in France so that they can go to the front lines also?

All of the troops in France (4 swords and 3 archers) could be relieved if we could get a few pikemen over there?