Machiavelly Institute: France's surrender

[Shiber]

I figured we need a thread to discuss when we should come to terms with France and end this war and what and how much of it we should demand from France, so I opened one.

[MrWhereItsAt]

When playing I was hoping for nothing less than Chartres, hopefully Rouen, and one more city. Never has France offered up Chartres, which surely we cannot allow to sit there so close to Mingapulco. They have only ever accepted one city, which has never been any better than Rouen (which would be pretty crap).

It is pretty aggravating. One thing is for sure, though. Without reinforcements, we can keep taking cities, but we won't have the forces to protect them without disbanding our stacks of attackers. Either France surrenders after one more city falls or we may need to settle for something less.

[Shiber]

Currently France can offer us either one of these deals:

* Technologies:
- Feudalism for 345 gold. We could techwhore it later to Russia, Babylon and the Iroquois to help them defend themselves from the Romans, and to other civs we want to cultivate as well.
- Feudalism and their WM for 356 gold. We might be able to carry out another fine mapwhoring project like the last one.
- If we throw in a RoP the price for Feudalism and their WM will drop significantly to 256!!! (we save 100 lytons)
I believe we need to sign a RoP with France anyway because it's the easiest way to connect our newly-acquired towns to the trade network: we just finish the road to Chartres and viola!

* Towns:
- They're willing to offer 2 out of the 3 following towns: Rouen, Grenoble and Cherbourg. Grenoble and Cherbourg are useless to us but Rouen could be used as a link to the trade network if we build a harbor there. Then again it's much cheaper to sign a RoP with France and finish the road to Chartres (just two more tiles to dig).

* What they won't offer:
- Gold per turn.
- A lump sum of gold: they have none. Figures.

I'm positive the French can do better than that, so I suggest that we continue the war for about three more turns and then return to the bargaining table. Of course if it turns out that the German war machine has produced a formidable army and they're marching our way we should end the war immediately.

[DAVOUT]

Considering the Germano-Aztec war, which requires our forces in the east to seize any opportunity to weaken the Germans, and our need of a strong buffer between us and the Romans, I am of the following opinion :
- take Rheims
- offer peace for Rouen, not so bad after all
- expect a flip of Chartres and meantime build roads starting Timeline (5 tiles?)

That would make 5 cities gained in a very short war, and that part of the Grand Bassin secured. Short of the access to Abananaba Minor which was originally one of the aims of war, but that is not to-day an obvious necessity, we would have obtained all what we wanted.

Edited for proper orientation.

[Shiber]

We can't take Rheims, it's a 1 citizen town.
Also, a road from Timeline would be much more expensive and will require us to divert workers from much more important jobs such as clearing jungle and mining the mountains near Here It Is (formerly known as Paris).

[DAVOUT]

As a capitol, Rheims will have created some culture and would not be destroyed, I suppose. Anyway, if we dont take Rheims, we must take Chartres before the peace.

[MrWhereItsAt]

I don't remember a time Rheims was ever capital. When we got Paris, it moved to Marseille, and now Avignon.

[DAVOUT]

On the 290 BC map, the French capitol is Rheims, not Marseilles as we expected.

[Reddawg]

Maybe Paris should be renamed C'est Ici... or C'estici... it means the same thing but it's french and looks really cool.

[Shiber]

Towns with 1 pop. get autorazed no matter how much culture they possess.

[DAVOUT]

I remember that this point has been answered by Sir Ralph, and I believe that culture prevent autorazing even at size 1, but you make me doubt !

[Robber Baron]

I begin to think the current situation offers us an invaluable opportunity: we should take advantage of the fact that the Germans are embroiled in so many wars, and hit them hard.
Germany will have to be confronted sooner or later -- the AI is so aggressive playing this civ that it will not let us continue to grow without attacking. Better we take them on now than later.
Meaning, perhaps we should make peace with France relatively soon, and concentrate our military forces on the eastern front, against Germany.

[OPD]

Originally posted by Shiber
Towns with 1 pop. get autorazed no matter how much culture they possess.

Not if they have culturally expanded they don't.

I think we may need to build about 4 settlers to fill in all the gaps when cities are razed.

[Shiber]

You mean if they have any culture at all or if their borders have expanded? (meaning they have at least 10 culture)
If the first is correct then Rheims will not be autorazed because it was the capital for a little while. If the latter is correct then it will be autorazed because it hasn't expanded its borders. If neither is correct (which I doubt since you both sound certain) then it'll be autorazed.
Does anyone know for sure?

[OPD]

If it has 10 or more culture it won't be razed.

IMHO we should keep the war going untill we have control of the land or cities of chartes, Rhiems and rouen.

As for Germany we should raze and replace Munich and then get peace.